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S1E06 Are Family-run businesses destined for workplace toxicity?

Today we’re going to be discussing a topic that affects many businesses, big or small – the impact of family-run or family-owned companies on the workplace environment. While family businesses can provide a strong sense of unity and support, they can also lead to toxic work environments if not managed properly. Family dynamics can bring in a lot of emotional baggage, personal conflicts, and power struggles, which can spill over into the workplace and create a hostile work environment. Nepotism, favoritism, and lack of clear communication can all contribute to a toxic atmosphere. In this video, we will be exploring the common challenges that arise in family-run businesses, and the steps that can be taken to prevent toxic work environments. We’ll be talking Tayla who is sharing sharing real-life examples to give you a better understanding of the issue. Whether you’re an employee in a family-run business, a business owner, or simply interested in the topic, this video is for you.

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Oh yeah.Speaker 2: 53:32

All these different shirts. No, that was the other Brian. That was T-shirt Brian Oh.Speaker 1: 53:37

T-shirt Brian. Oh my God, yeah, brian with the insurgents was very funny.Speaker 2: 53:41

Yeah, um, we had the lady with four million jobs. Do you remember that one Mm? hmm, i know Where she had like what was it Like? 47.Speaker 1: 53:54

Like her first. Like her first line out of the box was like I’ve had 46 jobs in the past 30 years and we’re like what.Speaker 2: 54:05

We’ve got Amy, who talks to us about toxic positivity, which is pretty cool, and then we had Stu, who was our most recent recording, yeah, talking about leadership, which I’m pretty bloody excited about.Speaker 1: 54:20

And now so we’ll be doing some more interviews, but also sprinkling in some of the research episodes.Speaker 2: 54:25

Yeah, and then we’ll be doing some research episodes is going to like is our next kind of step right? That’s our evolution.Speaker 1: 54:33

And we’ll see what happens. We’ll see what you guys like more And if you have any comments, thoughts, reactions, just reach out to us.Speaker 2: 54:39

Yeah, We really appreciate everybody’s comments. Yeah, We’ve had. I just, I just get so excited when someone comments, So if you could comment like like subscribe, share follow all those good things. Come join us on LinkedIn. Come join us on.Speaker 3: 54:55

Instagram, yeah, yeah Find us a good place.Speaker 4: 54:57

We’d be happy to have you.Speaker 2: 54:59

And we’ll see you in season two. Couple weeks, yeah, yeah, a couple weeks. Thank you for joining us today. If you would like to share your story, we would love to hear from you.Speaker 1: 55:10

Also, leaving a review helps us create more content because it shows us there’s an interest in this topic.Speaker 2: 55:16

For those of our listeners who do better with reading, we have closed caption available on YouTube.Speaker 1: 55:20

See you next week, same time and same place.

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Speaker 1 [00:01:00] Hi Nicola, How are you? Fine.

Speaker 2 [00:01:03] How’s your week?

Gina [00:01:03] It’s only it’s only like midday Monday here. I know you’re like already a Thursday or whatever, but Tuesday.

Nicola [00:01:11] Tuesday in the future it is.

Gina [00:01:13] Okay, cool.

Nicola [00:01:14] I don’t know, like some ridiculous time in the morning. That’s fine.

Gina [00:01:18] We do what we need to do, right? Well, it’s only midday Monday here, and so far it’s been a busy one. So lots of things, drama unfolding behind the scenes that I think we’ll get into at some point in a future episode. But love how I wake up and like, there’s always like so many Nicola texts and you’re like, Oh my God, this happened because I’ve got a surprise for you. It’s like, Who doesn’t want to wake up like that?

Nicola [00:01:42] Well, I set up a web page and then center, and I was like, I got a present.

Gina [00:01:46] No, no. Cute, too.

Nicola [00:01:48] Has your bikini drama going? Because that shit’s like, I feel terrible. And I on the same page here, we’re like, Don’t be doing that, bitch.

Gina [00:01:56] Yeah, I’m a all my competition’s not till September, so it’s a long haul process.

Nicola [00:02:01] She’s only allowed, like, two calories a day and she has to do, like, all this weight lifting because she’s doing a bikini competition. And I’m like, Nah, you’re not seeing this body and I’m.

Tayla [00:02:12] Getting into bikini. Is my competition.

Nicola [00:02:16] Good? What fights the fight of getting into the bikini?

Tayla [00:02:20] That’s the thing where it needs to be.

Gina [00:02:22] I, I just think like that. I want to prove to myself that I can do it because I’ve always, like, worked out but athletic. And now that I’m like, old and have a child, I’m like, Let’s see what we can do here.

Tayla [00:02:33] Why not? I think that’s.

Gina [00:02:34] Epic. We’ll see what happens. Okay. So I have absolutely as usual, Nicola knows this about me. I have absolutely no idea what we’re about to hear. I haven’t looked at anything. You’re lucky that I showed up on time.

Tayla [00:02:46] So, yeah, it’s just fine. I. I was going to tell. I don’t know if Nikki has told you, but I have a podcast with my husband, and I feel like every partnership is kind of this way. There’s one of the partnership that kind of does every Super Bowl operation, and the other one just shows up. And that’s like, I am never here and my husband is the Gina, so I can handle it. It’s all good. Like as long as it sounds like we’re all.

Nicola [00:03:13] Organized.

Gina [00:03:14] And I think it’s the way make it. How about that?

Nicola [00:03:16] I’m really excited because last time you got to introduce me again, and now it’s my turn.

Gina [00:03:23] I know. I’m really excited. Okay, You have someone special today?

Tayla [00:03:27] I do have someone special.

Nicola [00:03:30] I get my niece, Taylor.

Gina [00:03:34] Carry on. Who are we going to speak to today?

Nicola [00:03:36] We’re talking to my niece, Taylor, who is over in Utah, and I got to hang out with her in December, which was pretty cool. It was.

Gina [00:03:45] I remember that you were there.

Nicola [00:03:47] Oh, can’t. And she has got our own podcast as well. So I’m going to hand over to Taylor and you can give us a blurb on who you are and what you do.

Tayla [00:03:58] Epic. So yeah, my name is Taylor ever since because I’m South African originally as well. When I moved to the States, I always had to like explain that my name is Taylor, like Taylor, but with a two year, not Taylor, but with an accent. So that’s just a weird name. I’m from South Africa originally, but I’ve lived in the States and in parts of Europe for a while now. I mean, most of my background is in either international politics with human rights emphasis. It’s kind of what I studied. But professionally, I’ve mostly worked in corporate training and in operations and the toxic workplace. All we’re talking about today is when I was the director of operations for a I’m trying. You guys know this. Like toxic workplaces are usually very dramatic as it is. And so you’re almost like obviously it’s important to talk about and that’s why we have podcasts like yours, but like how to do it in a way that avoids as much more drama as. By the way, as I’m trying to decide, like how specific to be. But it’s a it was a small family business that I ran the operations for.

Gina [00:05:08] Like what industry it was in.

Tayla [00:05:10] Was it like, Yeah.

Gina [00:05:10] So I weren’t sure.

Tayla [00:05:13] I’ll turn it of help, but a little more like high tech, so to speak. So I was like.

Gina [00:05:20] It’s not really like a run of the mill type item. It’s very unique and niche and I can see why it would be like a family thing. And I think when nepotism and cronyism is involved, you’re already kind of behind the ball.

Tayla [00:05:35] Yeah, definitely so. And I will say like, I definitely don’t know as much about the health side or I really just made the business run. And so that’s the side that I focused the most on and that I know the most about. But, but certainly it’s I think and and you’ll probably empathize with this. The little is there there is some complication because one of the owners it’s a mother and daughter owner ownership and the the daughter owner is a micro influencer or macro I don’t even know but she’s an influencer on on Instagram as well and that that.

Gina [00:06:11] That has some.

Tayla [00:06:12] Of like how complicated and frustrating.

Nicola [00:06:15] Yeah I feel like your foot your head is like your head would be like flirting up with this.

Tayla [00:06:19] Is this completely detached from reality?

Gina [00:06:22] So that’s like my favorite word, problematic dynamic, I would say.

Tayla [00:06:27] I certainly there are, there are a lot of things I’ll kind of let you guys guide me through how you want me to talk about it. But yeah, so I I’ve worked mostly in operations. I pretty much ran that that whole business for the year or so that I was there. But I’m back in corporate training now, and that’s probably where most of my experiences is, is in in corporate training.

Nicola [00:06:48] Sure. So, so when you first got into this role, like when you were interviewed, were you interviewed like what was the hiring process to get you to that point?

Tayla [00:06:59] You know, I was finishing my contract at my previous place of employment as a corporate trainer. I was kind of looking on. I’d had a couple of job offers and I was I was fortunate enough to be kind of picky around this time. And I did. I didn’t know the owners personally. And so that’s kind of how we got connected. And when I saw that they were posting for position, it sounded intriguing to me because one, I wanted to be helpful. They were going through like a difficult time personally, from what I knew, I wanted to be helpful and I thought it might be kind of a good challenge or a way to push myself to kind of focus more on that operational managerial side of my experience. And so I reached out just out of interest. And then the interviewer really was just like she the and I would say between the two owners, the, the influencer was the, the really the problematic one, and she’s the one that most of my encounters were with. And so she, she just pretty much invited me to lunch. It seemed almost like she didn’t know what to ask. And I will say actually the position she was hiring for, the more questions I asked, the more I was like, Hey, you actually don’t need this position filled. You actually need this role. Like you don’t need an office manager, you need a director of operations. You need because you already she she was hiring a second office manager and I was like, your office manager sounds like she’s perfectly competent. You actually need this. And so I almost like told her what she needed, and she kind of asked me a lot of questions along the lines of I knew that there might be a dynamic issue with like micromanaging. And I just kind of was very upfront that I didn’t want to be in a position like that. I wanted to be able to come in, see what the problems were and make the changes that were needed to make the company profitable. I was like, That’s going to be my goal is to make this company as profitable as possible because that will help you. Obviously, the company, that’s the point of the company, but that will help you personally the most. So will you give me the space and the trust to actually do that? And she was like, yes, 100%. I just want to be able to give it to you and like pretty much be hands off. And I was like, okay, you know.

Gina [00:09:08] Let me guess. That did not happen.

Nicola [00:09:10] Oh, spoiler alert.

Tayla [00:09:14] In in I will say in waves. And that’s very much how it felt. Is that like depending on what was going on for her personally or what kind of state of mind emotionally she was in is how much space I did or didn’t get to do my job.

Nicola [00:09:26] So how long did you end up being there for? Like what was the duration of time that you were there for in total.

Tayla [00:09:32] A year and two months, six weeks of that? What I was I had maternity leave. Was it actually maternity leave? No. So yeah, you’re in two months.

Gina [00:09:43] Know I get that I, I did not, I was literally working from my hospital bed after I pushed out my daughter. I get it.

Tayla [00:09:52] I was getting texts while I was in labor.

Gina [00:09:54] To do.

Tayla [00:09:55] Things and she knew I was in labor. In fact, the tech started. Hey, when you have a second from having a baby, can you? And it wasn’t. It wasn’t even.

Gina [00:10:06] What you like. I was like, Do you? So.

Tayla [00:10:12] And I just remember, like, looking at my phone.

Gina [00:10:15] On this this screenshot, where it’s like when you’re. When are you done doing that little bit? Do you have a question about a baby?

Tayla [00:10:23] And I remember reading that text and being like, if you have to start a message that way, it’s a message that should not be sent. And the the craziest part was that it wasn’t even a critical task. Even if it had been, it shouldn’t have been sent. But it wasn’t. It was Can you send me this person’s number? But could you have asked any number of people for that? Should you have had it in the first place yourself? Yes. So I was just like, I didn’t respond. I just ignored it. I was like, this is insane. It was kind of one of those moments where I was just like, you know what this is? And I had this moments multiple times. This is right towards the end, I would say I took maternity leave six weeks while I was on leave, but I was working and then I stayed for one month after that and then I quit. So this was right towards the end, but was kind of one of those things where I was just like, Truly, this person cares nothing for me. I am here to be blamed when things go wrong and to fix things when things go wrong and to receive no gratitude or thanks or or even just acknowledgment when things are going well. And I was just like, you know, I just had my second baby like this. Really, I do not need this job. This is ridiculous. And so that kind of started it from there. But but truly, like, that’s just not even if you can believe it, that’s not even the worst interaction.

Nicola [00:11:45] So I.

Gina [00:11:46] Can be know.

Nicola [00:11:48] Like I feel like we’re now down a pathway that we can come back from. I feel like all of these stories are going to shock us and then we’re like, Yeah, you know what? These aren’t as shocking as I thought they were going to be anymore because it’s like you’re going.

Gina [00:11:59] To get like, desensitized.

Nicola [00:12:00] We’re going to be like, Oh, a toxic workplace. Yeah. Okay, cool.

Tayla [00:12:04] Yeah.

Gina [00:12:05] You’re like, you’ve.

Tayla [00:12:06] Kind of put yourself in that role where you’re you’re you’re going to have to remind yourself what a workplace should look like.

Gina [00:12:13] Pretty often you’re going to like, yeah, the old hat. Well, you know, a toxic workplace. Scuse me. So my question is. So you have like a little bit of a red flag with the potential micromanaging. But of course, she was like, no, no, no, you’re going to be able to come and do your thing. Okay. So can you walk us through like you’re maybe first smallish red flags, see, just to hear what that was like? And then then you can get into the meat and potatoes of it, because I’m interested.

Nicola [00:12:45] It was not the whole the.

Gina [00:12:47] Whole text with the Hey, when you’re done pushing out a baby.

Nicola [00:12:50] I feel like we need a screenshot of.

Tayla [00:12:52] That. It’s not even.

Gina [00:12:54] Like.

Tayla [00:12:54] I’ll send it. I’ll send it.

Nicola [00:12:56] Oh my God.

Tayla [00:12:56] It’s so.

Gina [00:12:57] Funny. I will make my gag.

Tayla [00:13:00] But it wasn’t a small red flag, unfortunately. And again, I were I’m trying not to be disrespectful and just like throw whether this person deserves it or not, just throw them under the bus. I feel like what the tragedy they were the family was enduring was very real and I think kind of recognizable. So I won’t say specifically why, but they were going through something personally that was really intense. And the red flag that I experienced, which I’ll tell you about in a second, was a huge red flag. But I think because of what they were going through, I chose to ignore it or to chalk it up to that moviemaker.

Gina [00:13:40] I get that because you’re like, Well, I’m going to give them a break because it’s a tough time.

Tayla [00:13:45] Or perhaps. Yeah, perhaps. Exactly. All right.

Gina [00:13:47] So what was the red flag? Yeah.

Tayla [00:13:49] So she the owner decided to and again, she just had no business sense whatsoever. Obviously, that’s not something I knew quite how.

Gina [00:13:58] No. You know, until you’re in it. But she likes the incompetence. Yeah. Okay.

Tayla [00:14:04] Sets up a business meeting with, like, every single person that she could possibly involve, whether it was just like they contracted out their accounting work. So the contracted accounting comes, and then the owners and the owners, husbands and obviously their family. So even though the owners husband’s like they aren’t technically owners, they just invite them and invite them and the office manager and the so I’m sitting at this big table with all these people that I’m just like, say, Mike, hey, I’m the new operations director, her 5050 owner, part owner as well, the mother. That’s when she found out that I had been hired as the operations director. So she should have been informed. Actually, she should have been like, I was like, you can’t actually do that. You can’t just hire someone without your.

Gina [00:14:47] Owner, like.

Tayla [00:14:48] Unilaterally knowing. Yeah.

Gina [00:14:50] Yeah.

Tayla [00:14:50] And she, like, found out at that table and I was like, Wow, this is so awkward. So we had negotiated me and the, the influencer owner at.

Gina [00:15:02] That who’s the daughter.

Tayla [00:15:03] Interviewed at that interview that we had, we had negotiated a salary. It was the same salary that she had posted with the position. I said, that’s that’s fine with me. It was it was competitive enough that it was appealing to me. And so we had settled on that. At this big meeting. They start going through finances, they start going through the challenges that the company is going through because this is like I guess it became a meeting for her to like figure out what was going on in the company and how to fix it. And so we’re going through that. You know, it’s obviously struggling because no one with a business sense is has their eyes on it and their their hands on it. You know, credit cards are all over the place and there isn’t really a lot of reconciliation going on. It was a bit of a mess. And so she turns to me in this big meeting in front of everyone and says, hey, I know we said this number for your salary, but can we do this number instead?

Nicola [00:15:57] Like just a breach of privacy?

Gina [00:15:59] Wait a second. Did she say the actual number?

Tayla [00:16:02] She did. She did.

Gina [00:16:03] How can I have a little contact? How old was the mom? How old was the daughter like? She was their experience. If she’s 30, corporate. Okay, So she’s not super inexperienced, like 22 or something?

Tayla [00:16:16] No, no. She’s like 30. And the mother is is a very experienced small business owner. The problem was when she invited her daughter to kind of inherit 50% of this company, they have a really toxic dynamic between the two of them. And so even though she technically had 50% ownership and say in everything, that didn’t actually happen because the daughter would frequently use their relationship to hold power calls drama threatened things with like the grandchildren like you can or can’t see them or fortunately with this situation as as I said like she said the number at this meeting and like what literally what can I say? Like in like I did. So what I did say was, you know what? I will take that lowered salary for three months because by all means, if you want me to, to prove that I’m worth the money because I know that I am, by all means, I’ll take three months here. I’ll. I’ll send you a list of the parameters that I’ll reach. And at three months, I want an evaluation based on all these things that I believe I can get done. And. I will get done and I want to be pushed up to the original salary at that point. And they agreed. And I just like walked out and I was just like that. I, I was impressed with myself that I didn’t just be like, Oh, yeah, that’s fine. Yeah. But at the same time, I was disgusted at myself that I that I allowed that to happen as well, like a little bit. So it was just like there wasn’t really a way to recover from, from that very well. But I at that, at that evaluation as well, they were like, Hey, I reached out. I was like, Hey, it’s been this time, here’s all that. And it was this huge list of stuff I had accomplished and changed and improved about the company. And there was pushback by the the younger owner, but the older owner said, if this is what was promised, because again, she wasn’t involved, even though she should have been in any other decision, she’s like, if you are promised that we are going to do it. And so it did happen. And but the wild thing is, is like the the they really opened themselves up to constantly be in a bad position because I didn’t have an employment contract with them because the person in that role, which was me, didn’t make one. And I very quickly, I was going to write one up for myself and, and like happened, sign it. And very quickly I was like, I’m not interested. I’m not going to do that. Yeah, well, not only because of the conflict, but I was like, I don’t want to be beholden to whatever they, you know, would be in a normal contract. And so but I made sure and they didn’t have like, where are the employment contracts for your employee is like they just weren’t anywhere. So I wrote them, I had them all signed. The damage I could have done to them personally into the company was astronomical. The access to that, the the banking, that everything I could have been stealing money the whole time and no one would have even known. Fortunately, I did not. I would never. But I could have. I was like, You didn’t. I don’t even know how she knew I was qualified for the position. And again, it’s fortunate that I was actually qualified to do what I was being paid to do. But I was just like, even if she went and hired my replacement, like, I just don’t know how she’s going to know if the person is qualified or not, or if the person would go ahead and steal this money. It was it’s a horrible situation. So so the little red flags were huge, like pretty much immediately.

Nicola [00:19:39] So the the the influencer who’s now kind of half running this business is like, do you feel that there were some toxic personality traits with that where they’re not doing checks and balances, they’re not, you know, improving their skills in business. They’re not taking the time to understand the the concept of business.

Tayla [00:19:57] Certainly, you know, I think that this person was very good and is very good at being a victim in that whatever narrative, she needs to share a push to get sympathy and to get people to help for free or for a little bit of money or for to save her, essentially. Like that was that was a constant cycle and I got suckered into that exact that’s the reason I went there. That’s the reason I stayed as long as I did was to help save her or to help her in a very difficult situation. And I just know that the only way she stayed afloat is because she was constantly surrounding herself with people who didn’t know what they were doing, who were smart, that had the qualifications. They would constantly get suckered into this narrative that she is a victim and she’s just hard done by and she’s had the wrong people around her and she’s been taken advantage of and she needs someone to come in and help her and cyber and, you know, just the right person hasn’t come along yet.

Gina [00:20:53] I would say that there’s probably more of a of a high self seeking and selfish behavior. So they’re going yeah I would agree with that benefit selfish am and there are only they’re going to get upset or scared or have some kind of big reaction if it’s going to take away something that they want or think that they can deserve. And they’ll go to pretty much any length to get what it is that they want. I don’t know if that makes them a narcissistic person or but I think that is a trait that we’re seeing, like the self-seeking, selfish behavior to to not always an extreme, but maybe more than average.

Tayla [00:21:34] Yeah, yeah, I would agree. And there were so many evidences that that’s what was going on was that so there there were personal loans taken out by this company to start it. And it was a it was a very high upfront cost for the kind of equipment they were doing and the training and the legal leg work or whatever. And when I came in and was taking a look at the finances, trying to figure it out, I was like, they have not made a payment towards these loans in a couple of years. And there’s no.

Gina [00:22:03] Interest being.

Tayla [00:22:03] Accrued. And I spoke to them and I was like, hey, like, this needs you need to be budgeting and making payments towards these loans every single month. And she’s like, you know, it’s really normal for companies to have debt. And I was like, I am I am fully aware that it’s normal for companies to take out.

Gina [00:22:26] That doesn’t actually, but.

Tayla [00:22:28] It’s not.

Gina [00:22:28] Normal.

Tayla [00:22:30] Yeah, I was gonna say it’s not normal for companies to not pay towards those loans and to not pay them off and to not accrue interest and to just be like, well, as long as I get my money in.

Gina [00:22:38] Was she getting a loan from that?

Tayla [00:22:40] Did personal loans from her parents and her parents in law?

Gina [00:22:43] Oh, oh, oh. Like instead of doing like a business loan at a bank, like, it would just be like me saying, like, I need like 50 grand for a home.

Tayla [00:22:52] No, a personal loan, knowing person to person. Yeah.

Gina [00:22:55] Okay. So that’s why there was no interest, which I guess. Yeah, that’s why they.

Tayla [00:22:59] Took advantage of it. And I was like, just because you can get away with not paying these people because they’re being kind and trying to help you doesn’t mean you should. It’s not a good business practice. You’re going to be on the hook for this at some point or you’re going to screw over these people that are in your life. And she just would kind of like almost gaslight me as if I was the one that I didn’t know what I was talking about that.

Gina [00:23:20] Well, clearly you don’t.

Tayla [00:23:22] Yeah, certainly.

Gina [00:23:24] But why? Why repay a debt? I mean, isn’t that how we all are? We just don’t pay things.

Tayla [00:23:30] And that’s kind of it goes back to that selfishness, right? Because very quickly I was like, hey, the amount of money that you’re paying yourself every month is not sustainable with where the company is now and where it needs to be.

Gina [00:23:42] You need to the range of how much they were paying themselves.

Tayla [00:23:45] So it was in it was in the five figures a month.

Gina [00:23:51] Okay. Per month.

Tayla [00:23:53] Yeah.

Gina [00:23:53] And I figures are low five figures.

Tayla [00:23:57] Low low, five figures just into five figures. So it’s like reasonable to an extent, but not at the costs that they were going through. Like they were just there was, there was like almost a hundred grand in credit cards because no one was keeping their eyes. And I was like, who is responsible for checking those paying statement balances? And it just wasn’t happening. So I started to I put parameters on like using the company card, what it could be used for approval systems, paying it down so that that’s just stupid debt to have as credit card debt because the interest rates and I did so many things to just I got I got that 100 grand debt down to like ten grand within three months. And I just had that conversation. I was like, you just cannot be paying yourselves this amount right now. I think that I can get you back to that within this amount of months. But this is where the money is going to that. Like you, we I’ve cut costs as much as I can, but you can’t like, I can’t find the money anywhere else. And so what ended up happening is they halved. They each the owners each halved what they were making at a huge fight. It was just like this whole thing of like, well, now we’re making as much as you are making. And I was like, Yeah, and I’m performing a service and getting compensated for that. It was just like weird where I’m like, I just it’s not my responsibility to be able to afford me. It’s your responsibility to afford me.

Gina [00:25:22] I like, you know, I mean, I so I own a small business and the first thing that I did when we were having issues during COVID was I took myself off payroll. All of my contractors, all of my employees, they all get paid before me. I haven’t had a salaried payment in over a year.

Tayla [00:25:43] And that’s what I try to explain is.

Gina [00:25:44] That’s how the business. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tayla [00:25:47] You, you are not just a regular employee and they weren’t really working either. Like they weren’t actually bringing money into the company to justify that either. And again, when you’re the business owner, like that’s the best part is that like when the company wins, you win. But the problem is, is when the company doesn’t, you are the one.

Gina [00:26:05] You’re still wanting on.

Tayla [00:26:06] The hook for that. Yeah. And so I like had that whole huge fight. It took like, such convincing. Like it’s almost like she just wouldn’t believe me. I show her the numbers. She didn’t really understand them. I would try and break it down as much as I could to explain like, this is what will happen if you stay on this trajectory. Eventually the fight happened and she was like, This is what we’re doing. We’ll do it for this many months. And then within two months she came back and she’s like, Put me back. I don’t care what you do, whatever you need to on credit cards, whatever, you’re putting me back. The problem is she didn’t also do that for her business partner. And so the business partner was still making half. And they knew that.

Gina [00:26:41] And then. And that was by the mom who was making her mom.

Tayla [00:26:45] Yeah. And she that obviously it’s not even legal like you if you have ah, 5050 owners you have to have the same payout because it wasn’t technically a salary. It’s like owner’s drawers. Right. And but the problem is right.

Gina [00:26:58] Profit share should be equal. Yes. Yes.

Tayla [00:27:01] The problem is, as the mother is a business owner, she knows this is only going to hurt me in the long run if the company cannot survive like I need to shut down now until there’s unless, you know, until there’s no money. And so she was unselfish enough to, like, know that and to continue taking half of what she was supposed to be taking her, what the other party was taking. But. Right. And it’s just, again, further evidence of like that selfishness. Cause I was like, you’re just you’re literally telling me, like, tank the company, whatever you need to do, just get me on my money, essentially. And I was just like, that is just not the way you run a business. And that’s the problem is she constantly expected me and the office manager and other management to act as if it was our company. If there’s like a thing that goes wrong in the middle of the night, it was us that had to solve it. We are the ones that had to, like, show up at 6:00 in the morning for whatever thing. I mean, I’m like, This is your business. When something needs to happen like it is on you to to make it happen. Because if your company wins, like you win.

Gina [00:28:03] That just is like, it sounds not normal to me what you’re you’re describing. Like, certainly not like.

Nicola [00:28:11] Can we just pause here for a second and remind people that if this podcast is something you enjoy, we would love to hear from you.

Gina [00:28:18] You can find us on Instagram, LinkedIn and YouTube. Let’s break up toxic workplace stories.

Nicola [00:28:23] Sharing and subscribing really helps us feel validated. Well, we come back to that accountability thing, right? And we’re starting to see quite a lot in these toxic workplace stories. Is that accountability where it should be held? You know, in our case, the CEO and the CEO, or they didn’t have accountability or the same level of accountability that we had. And, you know, then you look at Meg’s story and it’s like, again, there wasn’t any accountability in leadership and they lack experience. And, you know, I’m just starting to see a couple of through lines that are maybe, you know, trends or something for us to deep dive into it later, I think.

Gina [00:29:08] Absolutely. Yeah.

Tayla [00:29:10] And it’s because we were the only ones who knew what the hell was going on or what to do, but we just would constantly, like me and the office manager went through so much too, because we cared about the business like we really thought the business had so much potential and could help so many people. But yeah, we just we should have said no more times than we did. I, I’m someone I would say I feel like I’m pretty good at setting and maintaining boundaries. And even so, like they were just constantly pushed that I even got broken down, that I wasn’t as consistent maintaining my boundaries. And if that can happen to me, I was just like, No wonder this poor office manager, because she’s that she’s she’s the best person maybe that I know. And she just constantly would get her boundaries pushed and take blame for things that were not her responsibility. And I was just like you. It’s I can’t even describe to you like it was such a toxic. You just don’t realize how bad it is until you leave. But you guys have spoken about that. And even for me as someone, I was recognizing it in the moment, like truly didn’t realize just how bad it was until looking back. And in hindsight.

Gina [00:30:16] I mean, I think Nicole and I talked about that at length. It’s like because I think we give excuses to people, especially in a smaller company. We’re like like in your case, there was a very real tragedy that happened. In my case. I just kept thinking like, well, of course I can fix this. But, you know, there was like and like, whatever roadblocks that were being thrown at me, I was like, it’s just because they don’t have experience like we always find an excuse to. But I think and I know you listen to most of I think the first two episodes, like part of it for me was ego, because I was like, They’re not going to tell me like, I know better. And now I don’t always know better. But most of the time in this particular situation, I did. Was there any element of like that for you?

Tayla [00:31:04] Well, I’m I would say that I’m like very much. I’m pretty aware of what I’m not as good at, what I don’t drive as well in, and I’m aware of what I do. I am good at getting things done. I’m good at. Almost editing and fixing what needs to happen, putting the puzzle together to make sure that it runs, that it runs smoothly, it runs efficiently, and that people generally are happy and and whatever should be taking care of is so that they can thrive in their role and do their job. That’s that corporate training side, though, like I am also aware of like what needs to happen for the boots on the ground in order for them to actually thrive and do the best that they can. And I think there was an element of like, I know what needs to be done. I’m being paid to do it. I’m just going to do it. And this is going to be like this roadblock by this person is going to make it so that I cannot do my job. So I’d rather fix the roadblock and just do it so I can get my job done rather than sit with the consequences of someone else not getting what they need to get done. Done. That was a failure on my part because it’s again taking on responsibility that isn’t sustainable and isn’t right. But it’s so easy to get sucked into that. And I think a lot of people, even even in nontoxic workplaces, I think people struggle with that if there’s something that will affect your work.

Gina [00:32:27] Yeah. And also, like you take pride and like I take immense pride in my ability and what I can do because like you, I know what I’m good at. I know how to get things done. I know how to do product development, like in my sleep. So I take pride in what I do. But there’s a hard line between like thinking, like your job is the most important or your role is the most important because that’s what you know and understanding that you’re working for people. Like, it’s, it’s, it’s a very hard line that I think gets muddled often. And for me, that’s that’s something I need to work on. You know, that’s my part is I can sometimes take on too much pride in my work and then it becomes like tunnel vision almost.

Tayla [00:33:17] Yeah. You know.

Gina [00:33:18] You experience that either, but.

Tayla [00:33:20] Totally. And it’s actually something like in in my husband in my our podcast. It’s called Babe. What do you know about because we’re constantly we just pick a topic and we, we delve into it but we’ve recently done a few episodes on like mental health or, you know, on kind of interpersonal relationships. And we talk about this a lot is like just being a little more connected to reality and being honest with yourself. Like even if it’s not attractive or you don’t like what you have to face in yourself, like it is so much more worth it then disconnecting from that reality and getting yourself into a situation or relationships that ultimately like, aren’t serving or aren’t healthy, it is better to be like, You know what? Like, this is my role and my part in what happened. It’s just you know what I mean?

Gina [00:34:10] Whenever you it’s hard to get because like, especially in a toxic workplace, like it’s very easy to point the finger.

Nicola [00:34:18] Right? Easy.

Gina [00:34:19] So it’s harder to say, okay, yes, this is a toxic workplace, but also I have a part to play. Why did it take so long? I actually.

Tayla [00:34:30] Recognized that.

Gina [00:34:31] The red flags.

Tayla [00:34:33] In your I don’t mean for us episode one or two, you spoke about kind of your role in like the gossip culture. And I thought that was really cool that you recognized that in yourself and you’re like, That’s just not me. But I allowed it to be. And I will say that I kind of played into the same thing where I just was like, so frustrated. Everything just like boiled right to the top that I allowed it to get to the point where it spilled over.

Gina [00:34:56] Yeah, that’s just not me.

Tayla [00:34:58] It’s not professional. And I, I talk about this with my my husband. I think we maybe even did it in one of our episodes where I just like, you know, Have you ever played on, like, a sports team that’s like you’re really like a basketball team or whatever? Like you’re a really good team and then you play a really crappy team and for some reason, like you are not playing well and you’re like, just like right down pulled right into their level and you’re like, We.

Gina [00:35:20] Should be.

Tayla [00:35:21] Killing these people. But we are like, for whatever reason, we’re playing like not our normal game. And that’s kind of how it felt in this workplace. And I think a lot of people can feel that we were like, I should be like, This is my standard, these are my this is my level. And for whatever reason, like I’m just getting sucked in and allowing myself to get sucked into this level.

Gina [00:35:42] Of like, that’s the whole corporate culture that each company creates, right? So if you’re seeing the people that you’re reporting to, you know, playing the victim, gossiping, it subconsciously and subtly tells you that’s okay, we’re okay with that. So then you might start doing things that you wouldn’t normally do. You know, in my instance, like I was gossiping about my frustrations to people who should have been directly reporting to me. Whereas you’re probably gossiping with your coworkers, right? Which you wouldn’t normally do. So. It reminds me of the the the phrase water seeks its own level. Mm hmm. Right. So it’s like.

Tayla [00:36:25] It’s a great phrase.

Gina [00:36:27] Like you, if you’re surrounded by that, you’re there’s another good saying. It’s like if you sit in a barbershop long enough, you’re going to get a haircut. Yeah. So it’s like all that. It’s like you’re around it, you know, it’s it’s going to happen, so. All right, so why don’t we go into so we have this big red flag with the whole salary thing, which I would not have. I don’t know. I would have just been like, why I.

Tayla [00:36:51] I but I was like, actually shocked.

Gina [00:36:54] That’s serious. I know. Like, I thought, you’re so funny. What a funny joke. Like, I don’t. I don’t know. Okay, So that happens. There’s all this monetary stuff. Were they ever profitable this company.

Tayla [00:37:07] That’s the crazy thing is they brought in so much money, but the spending was so high and the debt was so high.

Gina [00:37:15] That they could never be profitable.

Tayla [00:37:16] They should have been they should have been so profitable. But there was just such a deep hole to dig themselves out of that they wouldn’t prioritize or do what they needed to do to dig themselves out of it.

Gina [00:37:27] That so lack of understanding that.

Tayla [00:37:31] Yeah, and that’s.

Gina [00:37:33] Like a back seat or sacrifices to get you where you want to go. Yeah.

Tayla [00:37:36] And that’s why the office manager and I would talk about this all the time are like, this should be the best, most profitable, most interesting company out there with, with this demographic. And it’s just subpar like because you’re, you’re just like on a boat, like filling the holes instead of actually, like, taking a second, like shutting down, fixing everything. So that like, you know what I mean? It was just.

Gina [00:38:02] Yeah, should.

Tayla [00:38:03] Have been it should have made. And it did. It made so much money, but it should have been profitable. It should have been able to keep up with whatever quality of life they’d had. The people they were paying should have been able to be compensated much more fairly. But because of terrible business decisions, it just it wasn’t.

Gina [00:38:19] It sounds like they’re hemorrhaging money. They’re making poor business decisions. So what was one of the other? Give us some more tea on the red flags that maybe a couple of highlighted stories that you think that we all want to hear about. There’s so.

Tayla [00:38:35] So many that the company had just gone through this legal battle to be able to operate a specific kind of treatment because it’s it is kind of a new treatment to not do like in a doctor’s office or at a hospital. And so they had just gone through signed after two or three years. I finally I like took over at the end and got the deal signed with the government. Ooh. Again, I’m trying to be as big as possible.

Nicola [00:39:05] The government provided physicians.

Tayla [00:39:06] That needed that, needed that agreement signed, and we had parameters to operate within. And I was like, Great, this is perfect. The owner would constantly not abide by those guidelines to treat her friends or people that she knew not in the right way for free and not with the right paperwork sign and not with the right supervision and the providers that were supposed to be there. And I would constantly say like, this is actually literally not legal. Like, just just have your friends, like, make an official appointment. You don’t even have to charge them. But like, go through this.

Gina [00:39:43] This.

Tayla [00:39:44] Procedure because you’ve just got this time, like, you could lose everything because you’re making this like, dumb short term decision. And she just would constantly either ignore my messages, she would start to have the office manager, like, keep the information from me. Like she’d be like, Don’t tell Taylor cause she’s not going to let me do this or she’s I’m just going to have to hear about the drama that she does. Like she wants it to be done, this procedure. She started having people like, keep it from me just to do it. And I was like such such dumb things to her. I’m just like, you can literally you still treat your friends for free, even though, again, dumb business decisions, but like, by all means. But just do it this way in this procedure, in this time of, you know, and just it was such a battle. And I just felt like, you know, they’re going to get in trouble eventually because this is just so these small, tiny things are so constant and I am going to be blamed for it, even though, like I’m the one saying, don’t do it. Here’s the procedure. I totally disagree with this. And that’s kind of what happened. And so before I quit, I got her on a Zoom call and I was like, I’m going to record this because I feel like if they get into legal trouble, she’s going to say, Oh, I wasn’t running the business at the time. This person was, They’re the one at fault for this. I knew this would happen. So I was like, Let me get this on record. Get her to talk about it, get her to kind of admit that this, but that I gave her that advice and and I was like, I won’t participate in it. And I this is illegal. And that she did it anyway. And I got it all. I didn’t even tell her because I was like, I’m just going to have it in case I need it. And that’s the narrative. Like when I left, that’s what like current employees were saying, like, yeah, she’s, she’s just, you know, when unemployment was calling and when these people are calling, she’s blaming it on you and the office manager that like you are the ones who actually did these you guys did the treatment. So like, I didn’t know anything. I just stepped into the company.

Gina [00:41:44] She’s like.

Tayla [00:41:44] And after they left. Yeah. And I just knew it would happen. And stuff like that happened all the time. And then, you know, when I put in my notice, I went on a Friday and I was like, Hey, I am being headhunted by a couple of companies. And I was I mean, we’re in Silicon Valley here in Utah. Like there’s just huge tech companies here. And there were a few that I had interviewed with unfortunately turned down the positions for this one that had kept my name in and started reaching out. I had just come back to work for my maternity leave that I constantly worked through when I’m.

Gina [00:42:16] Having that baby.

Nicola [00:42:18] Yeah, well, look, once you’re done with the phone and squeeze it out when.

Tayla [00:42:22] You have a sec from having. Yeah. And I had come back to work and I was just like, You know what? I just want to give you as much heads up as possible that like, um, I. I think I’m going to move on like I think I have done as much as I can for your company because you’re not really allowing me to be able to. Do my job like I just because you don’t actually. So what? Let me put myself back in. Oh, yeah. So I had this conversation with her on the Friday. I was like, I just want to give you as much notice. I really just don’t think. I can do anything more for you because you keep demonstrating to me that you don’t trust me. You don’t want to listen to my advice. You’re going to go around me to do whatever you want to do. Like, I think you’re wasting your money on me. Not because I’m a waste of money, but because, like, you’re like. I don’t know why you have me in your company and why you’re paying me when you don’t listen to me ever anyway. And she was just, like, terrified, right? Her response was terrified because she knew, like, I am the reason this company has been able to do. And so she’s like, Well, I’m going to need you to give me at least a month’s notice if you end up leaving. And I was just like, you know what? I again, I don’t have anything solid yet. I’m not going to commit to giving you a month’s notice. I will give you as much notice as I can, which is why I’m even bringing it up now. But she was just like, terrified. She’s like, You’re going to have to teach me, like, everything I need to know how to run my company. And I was like, I will again with whatever notice I give you, I will.

Nicola [00:43:45] You’ve had a year, baby, to learn from me.

Gina [00:43:49] But also, like, how did the company even I mean, this is a whole different conversation, but how do you even get that bad? Like, how did how do the co-owners not know what’s going on generally? Maybe not specifically. Like I just it seemed they were very strange to me.

Tayla [00:44:05] I constantly would try and train them and walking through meetings and explain how like, why difference? Because they would complain. Why is so much money going to this or that? And I’d be like, Let me explain the procedure to you. But I would just go in and out.

Nicola [00:44:17] Of this what had been happening for like three years before you came on and highlight spotlights in this debacle.

Tayla [00:44:24] Yeah, there there was a former employee before I joined. There was like some months between him and me that he had kind of kept eyes on things. And then as he wasn’t there anymore, it got bad. But yeah, like it just they were just so disconnected from their own company and they didn’t know how to do anything with it. The older owner was because she had been kind of like pushed out essentially. She wanted to be involved the No and the young one because she was doing who knows what with her time. But so I had this discussion. I was like, I’m going to give you as much notice as possible. And she was like, okay. Because the office manager had just quit two weeks before as well. And all the employees knew and they were like, Oh my gosh. Like, I don’t know if I want to stay. Exactly. And so she’s like, I also don’t why she, like, came back to me an hour later. She’s like, I don’t want you to tell any of the employees. Like, I’ll let them know, like on your last day. And I just like. I was just like, let’s talk about that because I, like, needed to process it. And then I went back there and I was, you know what? I’m actually not comfortable with that. These are every single employee they had. I had hired like no employees, had they? It was like a cycle. And you spoke about this in your a toxic workplace like signs is like the turnover was so high despite them all being very passionate about the industry, so excited to get the job. Like it just became so ridiculous that they would constantly quit and I would try to be as upfront. I would try to work with them, but I had hired every single one of these people that I was leaving behind and I was like, I’m actually not comfortable with just like making them feel like I’ve kept the secret from them and just like just leaving. So I was like, No, I actually would like to tell them that I’ve given my notice and I’m going to a different position. And she’s like, Well. I will tell them. And I was like, Well, okay, But just so you know, if people asked me about it, like I’m just going to be transparent with them by all means, if you are to announce that, that that you can. So it’s about 3 p.m. on the Monday and she announces a work meeting very early in the morning the next day. And keep in mind, I have a two month old baby and a two and a half year old baby. And I was just like, this is like less than 12 hours notice. Almost like, well, it was like 12 hours. I was like, I am not going to figure out childcare early in the morning to show up to a last minute meeting that you are. You know, I will watch the recording on Zoom afterwards and so I later know like I’m not going to be there by by all means like you can announce it there later and in the day. I’m listening to this recording and I was just like my jaw dropped because in that meeting she she goes through this whole and she’s like crying in the meeting and this whole narrative about how she’s needed this time to, like, deal with this tragedy and that a week or two weeks ago, which again, we had discussed things on Friday, two weeks ago, she pulled me into her office and told me that she wanted to take over my job and be connected to her company again, and she wanted to step back in and she’s pretty much asked me to leave. And this whole narrative that was just literally a blatant lie that she’s telling these people. But the problem is, is like all of these people know that. So they’re all just like listening to this kid.

Gina [00:47:38] They know she’s lying.

Tayla [00:47:40] They’re pretty sure. And a lot of them kind of reach out and they’re like, Hey, you know, that that kind of was weird. And I was just like, I am not going to lie. It is. People are just like, Yeah, that’s not what happened.

Gina [00:47:50] And I was also like the whole form of gaslighting.

Tayla [00:47:54] Totally.

Gina [00:47:55] And it’s like a laugh, like, fuck you at the end of the day.

Tayla [00:47:59] And I like in that same recorded, like conversation, I just like, had it out with the owner. I was just like, you know, something that’s really bothering me is the fact that, like, you lie to these people and she and I just like, knew I knew that she would gaslight me and be like, Oh, I just didn’t tell. Like, that was my plan all along. I was going to ask you to leave. I was going to do all these.

Gina [00:48:19] How was it? I just hadn’t told you yet.

Tayla [00:48:22] You know, You just didn’t know that. So. So that was true.

Gina [00:48:25] You just didn’t like I was just like, I have a boyfriend. But he goes to a different school. Yeah. Yeah. So you never really meet him?

Tayla [00:48:33] Yeah. And I just, like, even said to, I was like, you know what, dude? Like, I didn’t even want to have this conversation with you because I knew you would say that. I knew you would figure out some way to say that. No, I didn’t actually lied to my whole company. Like this was the reality. And I was going to ask you, and I was like, So you like begging me to give you this much notice and to stay and to train you on everything That was like, what was the lie? Exactly? And so I was just like, so funny. I sent the recording to my husband, Sam, and we were just both like, Oh my gosh. And so I was just like, you know, And she was like, I’m feeling some resentment from you. Like, you’re you keep. Like whenever I’m asking for training, you keep, like, acting like, annoyed. And I was like, Dude, I am annoyed. Like, I was just like, very open with her. I was like, I am annoyed because, like, I shouldn’t have to teach you how to bookmark a tab. But like, you’re telling me I have two weeks to train you how to do, like a very intense job.

Nicola [00:49:30] Like.

Tayla [00:49:31] I was just like, of course I’m annoyed because, yeah, like, you should know how to do this and. You’re going to be the one like I was just like you. So down by the end, I like you. Couldn’t walk out of there from my last day, like soon enough. And especially when the office manager left, I was like, Oh, I have to be here for, like, this many more weeks without her dealing with this. And I just, you know, I just couldn’t walk out there fast enough and. Um, the person she got to replace office manager was a former nanny of hers. What qualifications? She had those just.

Gina [00:50:07] Like, down the road? None.

Tayla [00:50:08] I think you just. She was just so manic that, like, whoever put themselves in and this this former nanny, it totally had the exact same suckered into. It was like, Oh, I’m just. And she was I think she was pretty capable person. And she had that mentality of like she just hasn’t had the right help. Like, I can come in and fix it. I’m the one who and I just I tried to be as upfront with her as possible and be like, yeah, I felt the same way, you know, but good luck. And guess what? You know, three months, four months. And that person also left their dream job for a different place.

Gina [00:50:39] Where where is this company now?

Tayla [00:50:43] They are again. It’s so, it’s so difficult to know because the the narrative and the messaging that they give out is always so positive and like, things are growing so much everyday.

Nicola [00:50:54] You know, the sex positivity.

Gina [00:50:57] We are still in business.

Tayla [00:50:59] They’re still in business. I imagine that someone else has come in that they have stopped repaying the loans that I set up the payments for. That’s probably part of it. Um, they’re probably under because I was the one who offered the, who came up with the wage offers and all that. They’re probably underpaying their employees again by a lot and they probably suckered in some other friend that is a very successful business owner to like help them manage some things. So I knew that would happen. I was like, you know, the downfall of the company will be a bit out because someone else will come in and try and fix it for her and they will have the energy to kind of do that upfront until they move on. And the next person Well, yeah, so who knows? Like I just couldn’t see a way of that being fixed, um, without some really drastic changes. But even so, like, even if someone completely, they would have to pay someone to take the company, if that makes sense.

Nicola [00:51:53] Or if you had to look back on your a year and two months they dear feel like there’s you know, any situations where you maybe perpetuated the toxic workplace culture or do you feel like there’s lessons you learned or things you could have changed to try and avoid that?

Tayla [00:52:13] Totally. And Gina and I spoke about this a little bit a minute ago, but definitely, like I did get suckered into some of the the toxic behaviors by the people, just like needing to kind of let off steam. And I should have I shouldn’t have done it in the ways that I did. But I will say that I did learn by I mean, I knew this in theory, but through experience I did learn that, like, the job is literally not worth my my life outside of work. It’s not worth my my time and energy to save people who just don’t care for them that the gratitude is just not going to be there. Um, I just learned that, like, the boundaries need to be defended and if they’re constantly being kicked at, then that’s going to be a huge sign that like, I just need to remove myself and as quickly as possible because it doesn’t improve with time. And that was always my constant hope. Like after this.

Gina [00:53:12] Hmm.

Tayla [00:53:13] Tragedy is over. After this amount of time or this anniversary or whatever, like it will improve and it just never does, I don’t think. And so I think, you know, if someone kicks out your boundaries a little bit and they respond very respectfully, when you pull that up, like being your boundaries, being pushed a little is not a bad thing. But how they react when you maintain that boundary is what makes a big difference. If someone was like calling me constantly at this amount of time, like at this time of night, and I was like, Hey, you know, I’m actually going to spend this time with my kids. I’m not going to take these calls. And they’re like, Oh yeah, I’m so sorry. And that and the the the older business owner, she would constantly be like, I know it’s not your work hours. Here’s a text. Please respond when it’s time. That’s not a big deal to me, but someone who will constantly. Push at them after that being maintained and just not respect them. It’s just not worth it and just move on as quickly as possible because it is better. It does get better. There is a better situation out there for you.

Gina [00:54:11] Yeah.

Nicola [00:54:12] That’s a good one. There is. You know, I don’t feel like it right now, but no, you know, it’s. There will be something better and you will be equipped to better identify those toxic traits as well.

Tayla [00:54:25] And you will love what even if you love what you do. But the the workplaces that like you will love what you do better and more if you’re in a healthy situation. So just just let yourself move on as as quickly as you can, because you you will love what you do even more, even if the role is not exactly what you love the most. Does that make.

Gina [00:54:47] Sense? Do you think you learned something like really positive from this experience?

Tayla [00:54:52] Yeah, I like I thought that I increased my skills like tenfold, like being working for a smaller business because I. I’d worked for bigger corporations. I’m working for a bigger corporation now. Just teaches you different things, like how to run a business, like from the ground up. I learned because I had to I pretty much had to run the business. And so I’m actually really happy and grateful that I did learn those skills and increase my abilities and like get into the nitty gritty of like what goes into actually running a business. It’s so much better. And the just the biggest thing that I learned. Like I said, is just it’s not worth it. Like, my family and my time is way more worth it than like the money or whatever, like temporary, like hooks of praise or kindness to keep me in that situation that I might get.

Gina [00:55:43] Yeah. So, I mean, I think that’s something that we sometimes overlook that out of every what we think is a terrible situation. There is something good that comes out of it. Sometimes it’s harder to spot it, but eventually you do get to that point where you’re like, okay, so you know. Yeah, I’m glad that happened for X, Y and z reason. Yeah, I get that.

Tayla [00:56:04] Yeah, I’m I’m not glad it happened, but I am not going to let it be only a negative thing. You know what I mean? Like, I, I have and I will continue to have learned from that the hard way, but I have learned from it, if that makes sense.

Gina [00:56:19] Yeah, it does. Well, thanks for sharing your story. It was a yeah, it’s been a rollercoaster.

Tayla [00:56:26] And I know and again, like, I didn’t even get into like, in any way, like, but I feel like we should. Me and my husband should have you guys on our podcast as well to kind of talk about workplaces. That’s something we haven’t discussed really yet, is just not only like how to build a positive workplace environment, but how to avoid or how to navigate within a toxic workplace. I feel like you guys would have some really good things to say, so I’m probably going to this is my my putting you on the spot where to ask.

Gina [00:56:56] You as a shameless self plug. But you know what? I love it. Literally, literally.

Tayla [00:57:01] Get on there because we just would have so much fun talking with you guys. I just love listening to the podcasts. I love how transparent you guys are. Like I’m a fan already. Like I’m subscribed. I’ve left a rating. Like you guys are great. So I’m I’m happy you have it.

Nicola [00:57:15] And it was good having you. So thank you so much and we really appreciate it. And I think I’m.

Tayla [00:57:20] Sure it well too. I mean, you get someone into an environment where they’re talking about this crazy stuff and like it’s like therapy. You’re just going to cut it out.

Gina [00:57:27] Yeah, I know. We could probably talk for, like, hours. Like, anytime anyone listens to the original, like, recording of when I had laryngitis, they’re like, What if you’re like, are you going to be doing a murder mystery or a romance or like, a romance novel? Are you going to. I’m like, neither. I’m just.

Nicola [00:57:44] The frog. It’s like.

Gina [00:57:46] Oh, is that all right? So that was really good.

Nicola [00:57:51] Geez, people have toxic workplaces fucking everywhere, right? Like, was so depressing.

Gina [00:57:55] Yeah, I was just about to say, like, we came a long way with that one. And I. We wouldn’t be able to do this podcast without you. Like, even though. Yes, that was my idea. Like, and the visionary. You’re the operation. Oh, my.

Nicola [00:58:06] God. Are you the charismatic leader in this situation?

Gina [00:58:11] No, I just had a good idea. That’s it.

Nicola [00:58:13] Like the charismatic leader of toxic workplace podcasts.

Gina [00:58:17] Which is actually secretly a cult. Yeah, no.

Nicola [00:58:20] Well, a cult of two. I don’t know.

Gina [00:58:23] I think. Oh.

Nicola [00:58:25] Yeah. Hold on, people. I call a cult of two people. Just, you know, talking about cults.

Gina [00:58:31] Yeah, well, you do love a good cult, Nicola. All right, so.

Nicola [00:58:36] Thank you for joining us today. If you would like to share your story, we would love to hear from you.

Gina [00:58:41] Also, leaving a review helps us create more content because it shows us there is an interest in this topic.

Nicola [00:58:47] For those of our listeners who do better with reading, we have closed captioning available on YouTube.

Gina [00:58:52] Next week, same time, same place.

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