S1E13: The dark side of success, overcoming severe burnout in a toxic work environment with Kelly

Are you struggling with the overwhelming stress of burnout? Tune in to our latest episode as we sit down with Kelly, a renowned expert on severe burnout and its effects on the mind and body. With firsthand experience of the devastating consequences of burnout, Kelly provides valuable insights on how to recognize the warning signs and take action to prevent it from taking over your life. Through their own personal journey of recovery and the stories of their clients, Kelly offers actionable tips and strategies to help you reduce stress and avoid burnout.

Don’t let burnout rob you of your health and happiness – join us for this informative and inspiring interview and take the first step towards a life beyond burnout. Introducing Kelly, the Burnout Recovery Strategist and Coach for leaders looking to overcome burnout and live a more fulfilling life. With years of personal experience as a high-achiever who fell victim to burnout twice, Kelly has dedicated her career to helping others reduce stress, identify their goals, and align their mind and body to prevent burnout from striking again. Through her expertise and personal journey, Kelly has developed effective strategies and techniques that have helped her and her clients to recover from burnout and thrive in all aspects of life. If you’re ready to leave burnout behind and start living your best life, Kelly is the coach for you.

Oh yeah.Speaker 2: 53:32

All these different shirts. No, that was the other Brian. That was T-shirt Brian Oh.Speaker 1: 53:37

T-shirt Brian. Oh my God, yeah, brian with the insurgents was very funny.Speaker 2: 53:41

Yeah, um, we had the lady with four million jobs. Do you remember that one Mm? hmm, i know Where she had like what was it Like? 47.Speaker 1: 53:54

Like her first. Like her first line out of the box was like I’ve had 46 jobs in the past 30 years and we’re like what.Speaker 2: 54:05

We’ve got Amy, who talks to us about toxic positivity, which is pretty cool, and then we had Stu, who was our most recent recording, yeah, talking about leadership, which I’m pretty bloody excited about.Speaker 1: 54:20

And now so we’ll be doing some more interviews, but also sprinkling in some of the research episodes.Speaker 2: 54:25

Yeah, and then we’ll be doing some research episodes is going to like is our next kind of step right? That’s our evolution.Speaker 1: 54:33

And we’ll see what happens. We’ll see what you guys like more And if you have any comments, thoughts, reactions, just reach out to us.Speaker 2: 54:39

Yeah, We really appreciate everybody’s comments. Yeah, We’ve had. I just, I just get so excited when someone comments, So if you could comment like like subscribe, share follow all those good things. Come join us on LinkedIn. Come join us on.Speaker 3: 54:55

Instagram, yeah, yeah Find us a good place.Speaker 4: 54:57

We’d be happy to have you.Speaker 2: 54:59

And we’ll see you in season two. Couple weeks, yeah, yeah, a couple weeks. Thank you for joining us today. If you would like to share your story, we would love to hear from you.Speaker 1: 55:10

Also, leaving a review helps us create more content because it shows us there’s an interest in this topic.Speaker 2: 55:16

For those of our listeners who do better with reading, we have closed caption available on YouTube.Speaker 1: 55:20

See you next week, same time and same place.

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this podcast may contain adult themes

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this podcast is for entertainment

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purposes only the views and opinions in

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this podcast are expressly our own when

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I get into the workplace I like to [ __ ]

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[ __ ] up

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honestly every time I try to do

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something fun or exciting you make it

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not that way hey are you tired of toxic

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workplaces and the negativity that comes

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with them we hear you and we’re here to

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shake things up welcome to let’s break

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up toxic workplace Stories the podcast

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that’s all about breaking up with

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workplace toxicity I’m Nicola and I’m

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here with my co-host Gina together we’re

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going to explore real life experiences

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of workplace toxicity and offer a sense

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of encouragement and unity that’s right

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we’re tackling the tough topic of

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negativity in the workplace and turning

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it into a movement for positivity we’ll

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be interviewing guests to share their

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experiences and offer practical

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solutions for dealing with workplace the

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city our aim is to promote solidarity

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and a sense of community amongst our

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listeners let’s break up is quickly

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becoming the go-to source for anyone

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looking to share and then ditch the

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drama and create a happier healthier

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work environment so join us each week as

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we explore the various forms of toxicity

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in the workplace Get Ready To Join the

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Revolution against red flags and toxic

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workplaces thanks for tuning in and

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don’t forget to like subscribe and tell

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all your friends in this week’s episode

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okay can I be so you’re getting another

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makeup tutorial and a hair tutorial

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today today I wish seriously you need to

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try this stuff it is what is the brand

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name it’s called milkshake

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that’s the brand name yeah and it’s

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leave-in conditioner but it smells so

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yummy like you want to like lick the

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bottle it’s so good and then I hear you

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that’s curly her head curly hair curly

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hair curly head

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um peoples it just it makes your hair

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feel so soft and yummy by the way we’re

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not sponsored by any of these people or

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if milkshake really wants to sponsor me

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I’m totally open to it because yeah me

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too literally eat the entire brand how

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my company works for this this very cool

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hair care company called curl Smith

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and one of the people I work with a few

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different people there they’re based out

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of the UK fun yeah and

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um

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yesterday I got a huge package

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from one of the girls she sent me like

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because she knows that I have very curly

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hair and she knows that my daughter has

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super curly hair it was so generous of

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her like she is so sweet like it was

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just like it was such a nice little

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pick-me-up because I was like what a

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nice thing I know I was like what did I

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order and then I saw what it was who it

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was from like the company was from and I

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was like no no but she is

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what you can work with yeah I love that

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for you yeah it was really cool but hey

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any hair care products that either want

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to work with our company my company or

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wants to actually

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um sponsor us

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[Music]

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you know what we are just Shameless

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we’re like yeah let’s start this podcast

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We’re Not Gonna you know we’re not gonna

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like we’re not really the plan wasn’t

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really to monetize but now we’re like

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hey

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we’re here for it if you keep well in

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our defense I think we didn’t realize

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how much work it really was going to be

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like I think you and I kind of thought

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like oh this is gonna be fun it’ll be a

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fun little thing that we do on the side

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like a cute little side hustle yeah like

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a cute little passion project and it has

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it has like morphed into like a second

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full-time job oh my God like honestly I

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got especially for you because you’re

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doing all the editing like

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I think if we do start monetizing the

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very first thing we’re gonna do is get a

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video editor that would be a video and

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sound editor like because yeah it’s just

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it’s so much extra work for you and it

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but it’s like draining as well because

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you can’t listen to anything else

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they’re like I can’t watch my favorite

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TV because I’ve got I can’t do two songs

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simultaneously right no I like I’m I’m

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in the same place because it’s like I

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can’t like if if I’m listening to your

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first or second edits it’s like

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I do it from I have to listen to all my

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headphones you have to finish it as well

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right I can’t be distracted you know all

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those things so even though you are

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doing the majority of the back end work

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um that’s what she said

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laughs

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that is what she said but it is also

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happens to be really true

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um you know it’s it’s just a lot of work

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and time for both of us which yeah which

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I’m just I’m not complaining about but

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I’m just saying like I don’t I think we

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were surprised I think I think we didn’t

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realize like how bad like how much of a

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time commitment it truly you know what

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because I’m super hyper focused on it

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I’m really enjoying doing it though I

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know you are it’s pretty amazing

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are you I’m very well thank you so where

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are you coming to us from UK

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yay second UK well no Gareth was also

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the UK but he was New Year but he was

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he’s technically living in New Zealand

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right now okay I’m sorry it was like 5

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a.m here so you’re getting a hair and

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makeup tutorial while we’re doing a

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podcast it’s so great don’t worry don’t

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worry you look like you have the worst

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bowl cut I’ve ever seen it’s what I like

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it’s so sexy it’s the worst bowl cut

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don’t do that to yourself oh my God okay

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so it’s lovely to have you with us today

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thank you very much I’m pleased to be

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here I’m I’m hoping though that you have

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listened to a couple of the episodes so

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that you know you’re joining an entire

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hot maze I have some Snippets right we

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can all do hot mess brilliantly right

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oh yeah

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wow oh yeah

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yeah it’s so good okay so what are you

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certified in so that we we know what

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level of smart we’re dealing with uh

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psychology Neuroscience

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um organizational change in behavior

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um yoga meditation empowerment firework

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training uh breath work I have questions

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just let’s start with the firework walk

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trainer I’m curious about this too

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yeah what why why how why

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yep all right so I wanted to be able to

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I think as part of my coaching I wanted

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to be able to understand the physiology

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that can get clients making action like

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taking better action in a quicker way

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and understanding what the physiology is

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behind that so firewalking like glass

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glass walking Arrow breaking board

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breaks all of that empowerment stuff are

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amazing ways to get our physiology in

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the right space to get us to make the

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right decisions

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okay so here’s my question when you are

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walking on the fire do you just not feel

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it

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you feel it but you just go across it

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like you you know you’re walking on fire

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absolutely so it’s not like a mindset

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where you’re like I’m not gonna feel

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this heat you just you feel it and do it

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anyway no you you feel it but yeah you

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allow yourself to go through it anyway

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and I think you know a big shift for all

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of us is that if we want to make change

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we’ve got to go through some discomfort

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right change can be uncomfortable

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um otherwise you know if it wasn’t

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uncomfortable we’d all be doing it right

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we’d all it’s true we don’t have

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questions

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of all growth right who said that

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absolutely so we’re going to be able to

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get through that get through that

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threshold to move forwards does it leave

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blisters on the feet because

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that’s what it can do yeah it can it

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absolutely can do and I’ve definitely

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had some but I think in in the fire in

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the world of fire walking

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um they’re not they’re not called

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blisters they’re called fire kisses

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oh

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no no get off the grass okay I’m such a

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princess I am such a I say I’m not a

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princess at all right it’s it’s a fire

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it is a fire kiss I’m a wonderful baby

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for saying you have third degree burns

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I’m the soles of your feet yeah yeah

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such a wonderful euphemism no no I’m so

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I hate pain so much like it absolutely I

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love pain but I’m happy to be

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uncomfortable in a work environment

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happy to do that yeah

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a terrible uncomfortable work

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environment without knowing it’s

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terrible and uncomfortable

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and or a cult I’m so comfortable

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I’ve worked in a cult okay

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so I was head of HR in this organization

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and uh like the chief exec

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would quite literally we’d have these

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Monthly Star forums and the chief exec

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would like get everybody chanting right

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that Sunday was the best day of the week

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because it was the day before we came to

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work right and he’d get everybody to

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stand and we’d all have to chant and

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clap and do all this stuff and you go to

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your first one and you think what the

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absolute [ __ ] have I walked into right

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you’re like this is not but then you

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kind of get bought into it and you think

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this is the main thing because

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everybody’s really bought into it and

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you can create amazing HR stuff right

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you think this is wonderful but then

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people start to get disciplined when

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they don’t stand up and chant

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at the star forums right I’m literally

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having to discipline people and not

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being engaged and not being wonderful

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and not doing all this stuff and we used

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to have because the chief exec was a bit

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weird we would have loads of like

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quarters

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seriously but we’d have one of these

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reporters and journalists that would

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come to the Forum and the chief exec

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would be like Kelly accompany them to

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lunch afterwards so I I’d like be stuck

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with all the journalists at lunch

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and every single reporter or journalist

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would be like so it feels like a little

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bit of a cult right and it was my job

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to woo the journalists and tell them

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that it wasn’t it was just a really

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valued and engaged workplace where

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everybody feels like an amazing part of

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something wonderful and then when I left

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I met a guy who there before me and I

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met a guy and he’s like so you he’s like

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so where did you come from and I told

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him and he’s like so that’s the cult

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right and I was like uh-huh yeah yeah

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yeah so so did you know that it was

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while you were there or did it take you

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leaving it’s the brainwashing right

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you’re brainwashed into thinking this is

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what an amazing place to work looks like

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and you think oh I love it

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right you feel part it’s amazing

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did you really I love it

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in the middle a bit of it yeah the

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beginning bit I just thought what the

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hell

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yeah the end bit was like I need to get

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out like I need to get the hell out of

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here but the middle bit I worked with

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some incredible people

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well some incredible people so yeah it

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was it was lovely okay well let’s

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I like that we have a pre-story story I

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I appreciate that so yeah

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I will have hundreds of them literally

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oh we’re so on board

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probably get started would you like to

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introduce yourself Kelly because we are

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excited to tell people more about you I

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am Kelly swingler I am a burnout

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recovery strategist uh xhrd so I worked

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in HR for over 20 years I burned out

294
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really really badly in 2013. left the

295
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corporate world and decided that I knew

296
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everything that there was about burnout

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prevention really kind of embedded

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myself in all of this weird and

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wonderful training and then better again

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00:12:24,180 –> 00:12:27,480
in 2015

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I realized that I hadn’t learned

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anything so that it was really time to

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make the changes uh and so since 2015 I

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have been uh making all the changes

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00:12:35,880 –> 00:12:41,100
designing all the strategies and really

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helping leaders at all levels to uh live

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a life

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post burnout understand what all of that

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00:12:45,120 –> 00:12:49,500
looks like post burnout but my big

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mission I will get there one day is to

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banish burnout and I believe that we can

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do that by eliminating toxic workplaces

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do you want to start by walking us

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00:12:56,220 –> 00:13:01,680
through your first burnout and like what

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00:12:59,279 –> 00:13:03,300
what industry were you in what was your

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00:13:01,680 –> 00:13:07,079
position how long were you at the

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00:13:03,300 –> 00:13:09,720
position so on and so forth yeah so I

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was an HR director

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um organization of just under 4 000

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people

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00:13:13,019 –> 00:13:18,779
oh just I had a team of yeah just on dad

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a team of 43 people

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I was 32

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uh kind of thought I knew it all I’d

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been I’d been head hunted for this

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particular role from a previous

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organization they loved all of the stuff

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00:13:29,820 –> 00:13:33,420
that I was doing in HR they loved the

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amazing workplaces that I was creating

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they loved all of their Innovative and

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creative things that I was doing to

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change the world of work for people so

333
00:13:39,899 –> 00:13:45,839
of course I go into this organization on

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00:13:42,779 –> 00:13:47,700
my first day my gut was telling me you

335
00:13:45,839 –> 00:13:50,060
need to get the hell out of here on the

336
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first on the first day

337
00:13:50,060 –> 00:13:57,000
anything specific that it was I mean

338
00:13:54,420 –> 00:13:59,040
definitely a few things yeah definitely

339
00:13:57,000 –> 00:14:01,019
a few things so I turned up on my first

340
00:13:59,040 –> 00:14:02,639
day like nobody was expecting me I was

341
00:14:01,019 –> 00:14:06,120
left sat in reception for like an hour

342
00:14:02,639 –> 00:14:08,160
ew then when I went up and kind of it

343
00:14:06,120 –> 00:14:09,839
was like your boss hasn’t got time to

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00:14:08,160 –> 00:14:13,260
meet you today just like basically sit

345
00:14:09,839 –> 00:14:14,700
here we can’t give you any it access

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00:14:13,260 –> 00:14:16,920
um and it was one of these places where

347
00:14:14,700 –> 00:14:18,839
you had like a like a key pass key fob

348
00:14:16,920 –> 00:14:21,920
to get around the building oh no I

349
00:14:18,839 –> 00:14:24,000
couldn’t I couldn’t go anywhere

350
00:14:21,920 –> 00:14:25,500
yeah couldn’t go anywhere on a school

351
00:14:24,000 –> 00:14:27,120
kid because I didn’t have my key pass

352
00:14:25,500 –> 00:14:28,320
couldn’t get on the internet but there

353
00:14:27,120 –> 00:14:30,620
was something else I just kind of sat

354
00:14:28,320 –> 00:14:33,839
there my gut was like get the hell out

355
00:14:30,620 –> 00:14:36,420
I put it down firstly to kind of first

356
00:14:33,839 –> 00:14:38,880
day nerves like who walks out of a job

357
00:14:36,420 –> 00:14:40,920
in their first day right nobody walks

358
00:14:38,880 –> 00:14:42,360
out of a job on their first day not at

359
00:14:40,920 –> 00:14:43,440
the level that I was at right this is

360
00:14:42,360 –> 00:14:47,940
stupid

361
00:14:43,440 –> 00:14:49,320
so uh so I stayed and the the niggling

362
00:14:47,940 –> 00:14:51,240
feeling that kept telling me to get the

363
00:14:49,320 –> 00:14:53,519
hell out there lasted for months and

364
00:14:51,240 –> 00:14:56,399
still I carried on and I think I was

365
00:14:53,519 –> 00:14:59,040
convinced that although I could start to

366
00:14:56,399 –> 00:15:00,839
see some of the like toxic behaviors and

367
00:14:59,040 –> 00:15:02,519
like the lack of communication the lack

368
00:15:00,839 –> 00:15:05,220
of Engagement the backstabbing the

369
00:15:02,519 –> 00:15:07,139
bitching the awful exec team the awful

370
00:15:05,220 –> 00:15:10,260
little I can see all this stuff

371
00:15:07,139 –> 00:15:11,760
but as the HR Director I think I you

372
00:15:10,260 –> 00:15:13,680
know I literally thought I could change

373
00:15:11,760 –> 00:15:16,079
all of this right what an amazing

374
00:15:13,680 –> 00:15:19,680
opportunity it was essentially your job

375
00:15:16,079 –> 00:15:21,899
to change all of it exactly right this

376
00:15:19,680 –> 00:15:25,680
was my job to change this whole

377
00:15:21,899 –> 00:15:28,139
workplace like single-handedly obviously

378
00:15:25,680 –> 00:15:30,480
um and I and I just stayed literally 43

379
00:15:28,139 –> 00:15:33,540
people don’t be 43 people

380
00:15:30,480 –> 00:15:35,459
um but I yeah I think I I just got to

381
00:15:33,540 –> 00:15:37,260
the point of like this I saw it as an

382
00:15:35,459 –> 00:15:41,160
opportunity to really really kind of

383
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make my mark and put my stamp on this

384
00:15:41,160 –> 00:15:44,880
workplace and really really change

385
00:15:42,420 –> 00:15:48,600
things so so I carried on

386
00:15:44,880 –> 00:15:51,000
and two years later I was serious like

387
00:15:48,600 –> 00:15:53,399
seriously seriously ill

388
00:15:51,000 –> 00:15:54,899
um my burnout had taken hold of me

389
00:15:53,399 –> 00:15:57,240
physically like to the point that I

390
00:15:54,899 –> 00:15:58,800
could not stand up straight the pain

391
00:15:57,240 –> 00:16:00,779
that I was in was ridiculous I couldn’t

392
00:15:58,800 –> 00:16:02,880
stand up straight couldn’t carry like my

393
00:16:00,779 –> 00:16:04,800
oversized handbag in my oversized high

394
00:16:02,880 –> 00:16:06,660
heels

395
00:16:04,800 –> 00:16:08,820
um literally couldn’t walk and I had

396
00:16:06,660 –> 00:16:10,740
seven months of being admitted in and

397
00:16:08,820 –> 00:16:12,240
out of hospital I was passing out on the

398
00:16:10,740 –> 00:16:14,040
train on the way home I was being

399
00:16:12,240 –> 00:16:15,720
admitted to hospital nobody could tell

400
00:16:14,040 –> 00:16:17,279
me what was wrong with me

401
00:16:15,720 –> 00:16:18,899
uh but I still didn’t think there was

402
00:16:17,279 –> 00:16:20,339
anything wrong right and everybody kept

403
00:16:18,899 –> 00:16:21,660
telling me all of my family and all of

404
00:16:20,339 –> 00:16:23,100
my friends were like you need to take a

405
00:16:21,660 –> 00:16:24,959
break it was like I don’t there’s

406
00:16:23,100 –> 00:16:26,519
nothing wrong with me that’s where

407
00:16:24,959 –> 00:16:30,600
burnout had got me

408
00:16:26,519 –> 00:16:31,800
were you working like crazy hours were

409
00:16:30,600 –> 00:16:34,019
the like

410
00:16:31,800 –> 00:16:35,160
what was actually happening because we

411
00:16:34,019 –> 00:16:37,740
just spoke to somebody else about

412
00:16:35,160 –> 00:16:39,959
burnout and they were saying that you

413
00:16:37,740 –> 00:16:41,699
know the hours were becoming crazy they

414
00:16:39,959 –> 00:16:43,680
were focusing on things that they

415
00:16:41,699 –> 00:16:44,940
couldn’t control versus the things that

416
00:16:43,680 –> 00:16:47,940
they could

417
00:16:44,940 –> 00:16:51,000
um so what did what did your burnout

418
00:16:47,940 –> 00:16:53,699
look like before it became physical so

419
00:16:51,000 –> 00:16:55,800
before it became physical I would again

420
00:16:53,699 –> 00:16:57,540
I would say I don’t think there was

421
00:16:55,800 –> 00:17:01,199
anything wrong right I’ve been used to

422
00:16:57,540 –> 00:17:05,699
managing huge projects before I was

423
00:17:01,199 –> 00:17:07,860
always a hard-working over achieving

424
00:17:05,699 –> 00:17:09,959
over performing perfectionists right

425
00:17:07,860 –> 00:17:14,400
they were they were badges that I wore

426
00:17:09,959 –> 00:17:16,260
with with honor right this this is yep

427
00:17:14,400 –> 00:17:18,000
and I think at the level that I was

428
00:17:16,260 –> 00:17:21,959
working at and at the salary that I was

429
00:17:18,000 –> 00:17:24,500
being paid I think I just had this

430
00:17:21,959 –> 00:17:27,000
I don’t know like just this mentality

431
00:17:24,500 –> 00:17:29,160
that at my level on the salary that I

432
00:17:27,000 –> 00:17:30,840
was being paid I needed to give as much

433
00:17:29,160 –> 00:17:33,540
as I could possibly give and I think

434
00:17:30,840 –> 00:17:36,240
also because I was the youngest director

435
00:17:33,540 –> 00:17:39,120
at that level I was also the only woman

436
00:17:36,240 –> 00:17:41,100
at that level and I think I felt like I

437
00:17:39,120 –> 00:17:43,440
had so much to prove so whilst I’m sat

438
00:17:41,100 –> 00:17:45,660
around board rooms and the bitching and

439
00:17:43,440 –> 00:17:47,820
the backstabbing is continue you know

440
00:17:45,660 –> 00:17:49,799
continuing I was managing multi-million

441
00:17:47,820 –> 00:17:51,299
pound projects

442
00:17:49,799 –> 00:17:53,100
um you know I was involved in lots and

443
00:17:51,299 –> 00:17:55,440
lots of different change programs I was

444
00:17:53,100 –> 00:17:57,720
embedding a new team I there was so much

445
00:17:55,440 –> 00:17:59,160
exciting stuff that was happening and I

446
00:17:57,720 –> 00:18:01,020
just thought I had I was spinning lots

447
00:17:59,160 –> 00:18:02,880
and lots of plates but I had you know an

448
00:18:01,020 –> 00:18:06,120
incredible assistant I had an amazing

449
00:18:02,880 –> 00:18:08,100
team but kind of outside of my immediate

450
00:18:06,120 –> 00:18:10,980
assistant and my immediate team it like

451
00:18:08,100 –> 00:18:13,679
it was toxic like literally people would

452
00:18:10,980 –> 00:18:16,080
not invite you to a meeting and then

453
00:18:13,679 –> 00:18:18,539
send you this awful email about like

454
00:18:16,080 –> 00:18:19,740
where like how how dare you not turn up

455
00:18:18,539 –> 00:18:21,480
for this meeting it’s like I didn’t even

456
00:18:19,740 –> 00:18:24,240
I didn’t even know it was happening like

457
00:18:21,480 –> 00:18:26,100
you’d submit board papers but everybody

458
00:18:24,240 –> 00:18:28,260
like you’d had you’d have conversations

459
00:18:26,100 –> 00:18:29,760
with every single person about this

460
00:18:28,260 –> 00:18:31,080
board paper before you’d go into the

461
00:18:29,760 –> 00:18:33,179
meeting and everyone’s like yeah fully

462
00:18:31,080 –> 00:18:35,039
on board love it and you’d get in the

463
00:18:33,179 –> 00:18:37,260
boardroom and people would be like

464
00:18:35,039 –> 00:18:39,900
looking at each other like

465
00:18:37,260 –> 00:18:41,700
what is she talking about like we have

466
00:18:39,900 –> 00:18:43,799
absolutely no idea what she said I’m

467
00:18:41,700 –> 00:18:45,179
like excuse me so there was all of those

468
00:18:43,799 –> 00:18:47,820
things happening but I think the most

469
00:18:45,179 –> 00:18:50,580
poisonous stuff that was going on was as

470
00:18:47,820 –> 00:18:52,559
part of a an organizational white change

471
00:18:50,580 –> 00:18:54,539
program the the organization had

472
00:18:52,559 –> 00:18:56,940
recruited

473
00:18:54,539 –> 00:18:58,919
um or were partnering with one of like

474
00:18:56,940 –> 00:19:01,320
the world’s leading top four

475
00:18:58,919 –> 00:19:02,940
consultancies you’d have for me I think

476
00:19:01,320 –> 00:19:04,860
the way that they get into organizations

477
00:19:02,940 –> 00:19:06,600
is the first in the first place is they

478
00:19:04,860 –> 00:19:09,840
battle people with science right so here

479
00:19:06,600 –> 00:19:12,059
is a PowerPoint presentation but with 10

480
00:19:09,840 –> 00:19:14,460
000 bits of data on yeah but the

481
00:19:12,059 –> 00:19:16,080
information is so small that nobody can

482
00:19:14,460 –> 00:19:17,580
read it and nobody dare asks any

483
00:19:16,080 –> 00:19:20,900
questions because nobody wants to look

484
00:19:17,580 –> 00:19:20,900
like the stupid one in the room

485
00:19:21,380 –> 00:19:27,539
yeah yeah right blinded you with science

486
00:19:25,039 –> 00:19:31,080
you know so some of the most so one so

487
00:19:27,539 –> 00:19:34,140
part of how the company had engaged them

488
00:19:31,080 –> 00:19:36,120
was they would get like a percentage of

489
00:19:34,140 –> 00:19:37,860
every every Financial saving that the

490
00:19:36,120 –> 00:19:39,660
business would make this consultancy

491
00:19:37,860 –> 00:19:42,900
would get a percentage of that Saving

492
00:19:39,660 –> 00:19:44,700
right there was one project that my team

493
00:19:42,900 –> 00:19:46,200
had been leading

494
00:19:44,700 –> 00:19:48,240
my team had been needing this even

495
00:19:46,200 –> 00:19:49,559
before this consultancy was engaged my

496
00:19:48,240 –> 00:19:53,160
team had been leading on this project

497
00:19:49,559 –> 00:19:54,900
and we we had identified and were in the

498
00:19:53,160 –> 00:19:57,020
process of implementing within the first

499
00:19:54,900 –> 00:20:01,340
year of this project concluding

500
00:19:57,020 –> 00:20:03,419
14 million pound Saving right 40 million

501
00:20:01,340 –> 00:20:05,640
for commission

502
00:20:03,419 –> 00:20:07,260
and they took the commission for the

503
00:20:05,640 –> 00:20:09,179
project I know that they had nothing to

504
00:20:07,260 –> 00:20:11,220
do with it so I’m arguing with the

505
00:20:09,179 –> 00:20:12,480
finance director and and the senior

506
00:20:11,220 –> 00:20:13,980
consultant that was work and they’re

507
00:20:12,480 –> 00:20:16,799
like Kelly just let them have it I’m

508
00:20:13,980 –> 00:20:18,900
like this is unethical it’s immoral they

509
00:20:16,799 –> 00:20:21,299
did nothing the project was already

510
00:20:18,900 –> 00:20:22,799
finished before they came in and you’re

511
00:20:21,299 –> 00:20:24,539
going to give them a proportion well you

512
00:20:22,799 –> 00:20:26,100
know this is our contract terms well you

513
00:20:24,539 –> 00:20:27,720
need to re-look at the contract terms

514
00:20:26,100 –> 00:20:30,539
because if my team are going to continue

515
00:20:27,720 –> 00:20:32,160
to work to keep saving this money

516
00:20:30,539 –> 00:20:33,539
they’re going to take they’re going to

517
00:20:32,160 –> 00:20:36,360
take all of it so there was that stuff

518
00:20:33,539 –> 00:20:38,460
but what was also happening they kept

519
00:20:36,360 –> 00:20:40,140
organizing these like leadership-wide

520
00:20:38,460 –> 00:20:42,000
events so you’ve probably got between 60

521
00:20:40,140 –> 00:20:42,840
and 100 leaders in a room at any one

522
00:20:42,000 –> 00:20:44,460
time

523
00:20:42,840 –> 00:20:46,140
and we were stuck in these rooms for

524
00:20:44,460 –> 00:20:48,120
days right you’d have six Consultants

525
00:20:46,140 –> 00:20:51,200
like one leading it two typing on

526
00:20:48,120 –> 00:20:54,059
laptops either two people writing

527
00:20:51,200 –> 00:20:56,460
one person doing something else

528
00:20:54,059 –> 00:20:57,660
but at the end of these meetings that we

529
00:20:56,460 –> 00:21:01,080
would literally feel like we were

530
00:20:57,660 –> 00:21:02,880
trapped in these rooms for days yes and

531
00:21:01,080 –> 00:21:04,679
I’m looking at it from a time and cost

532
00:21:02,880 –> 00:21:06,299
perspective to the organization right

533
00:21:04,679 –> 00:21:08,700
how much is this costing us in time how

534
00:21:06,299 –> 00:21:10,380
much is this costing us in money and at

535
00:21:08,700 –> 00:21:12,000
the end of these meetings the guy that

536
00:21:10,380 –> 00:21:14,280
was stood there and like he’s his gray

537
00:21:12,000 –> 00:21:15,480
pinstripe suit would kind of open up his

538
00:21:14,280 –> 00:21:18,299
suit jacket

539
00:21:15,480 –> 00:21:20,460
pull out this piece of paper and be like

540
00:21:18,299 –> 00:21:22,140
here’s one I prepared earlier

541
00:21:20,460 –> 00:21:23,820
and then ignore everything that we’d

542
00:21:22,140 –> 00:21:25,620
said for the last two days and I’m like

543
00:21:23,820 –> 00:21:27,600
what are you doing so again like from

544
00:21:25,620 –> 00:21:29,100
any moral and unethical perspective I’m

545
00:21:27,600 –> 00:21:30,600
like this does not feel right and this

546
00:21:29,100 –> 00:21:33,179
stuff has continued to happen and happen

547
00:21:30,600 –> 00:21:34,620
and I continue to call it out

548
00:21:33,179 –> 00:21:36,000
and everybody else is like but you know

549
00:21:34,620 –> 00:21:37,740
it’s in the contract we’ve just got to

550
00:21:36,000 –> 00:21:41,340
kind of you know just just leave it that

551
00:21:37,740 –> 00:21:43,740
contract real money contracts as your as

552
00:21:41,340 –> 00:21:46,320
your yeah lawyer I’m not a lawyer

553
00:21:43,740 –> 00:21:48,780
absolutely I’m not but as your husband

554
00:21:46,320 –> 00:21:50,820
absolutely I’m not um but as your

555
00:21:48,780 –> 00:21:53,100
favorite lawyer friend as your fake

556
00:21:50,820 –> 00:21:55,320
lawyer friend the one that does the one

557
00:21:53,100 –> 00:21:58,280
that is studying a master of law read

558
00:21:55,320 –> 00:21:58,280
your contracts

559
00:21:59,870 –> 00:22:02,920
[Music]

560
00:22:03,260 –> 00:22:08,820
but that was the thing and I think

561
00:22:05,280 –> 00:22:11,760
seeing this unethically moral staff

562
00:22:08,820 –> 00:22:13,320
got me even more into like I have to be

563
00:22:11,760 –> 00:22:14,880
the one to make the change right I’ve

564
00:22:13,320 –> 00:22:16,320
got to stop this stuff I’ve got to stop

565
00:22:14,880 –> 00:22:17,340
this unethical I’ve got to stop this

566
00:22:16,320 –> 00:22:19,559
immoral

567
00:22:17,340 –> 00:22:20,940
and then they said to me what what can I

568
00:22:19,559 –> 00:22:23,760
really got to the point was they said to

569
00:22:20,940 –> 00:22:25,679
me you need to restructure your team you

570
00:22:23,760 –> 00:22:28,260
need to make them put them at risk of

571
00:22:25,679 –> 00:22:30,299
redundancy before Christmas and then

572
00:22:28,260 –> 00:22:32,400
when you come back in January you need

573
00:22:30,299 –> 00:22:33,659
to you need to like consult with them at

574
00:22:32,400 –> 00:22:36,720
the same time as interviewing them for

575
00:22:33,659 –> 00:22:38,460
their posts I was like immoral unethical

576
00:22:36,720 –> 00:22:40,980
I was basically shot by the whole of the

577
00:22:38,460 –> 00:22:42,360
leadership team yeah and was basically

578
00:22:40,980 –> 00:22:45,179
told by the whole of the leadership team

579
00:22:42,360 –> 00:22:48,240
Kelly just get on with it you’re taking

580
00:22:45,179 –> 00:22:53,520
on all of this stuff

581
00:22:48,240 –> 00:22:56,700
um calling out the you know unethical

582
00:22:53,520 –> 00:22:58,679
proceedings of this company yeah and and

583
00:22:56,700 –> 00:23:00,900
then your physical symptoms start

584
00:22:58,679 –> 00:23:02,340
correct yeah so then my physical

585
00:23:00,900 –> 00:23:03,840
symptoms start so I was basically told

586
00:23:02,340 –> 00:23:06,960
make your team redundant Before

587
00:23:03,840 –> 00:23:08,580
Christmas uh which I did reluctantly

588
00:23:06,960 –> 00:23:10,559
worried about it all over the Christmas

589
00:23:08,580 –> 00:23:12,900
breaks I thought this is just wrong and

590
00:23:10,559 –> 00:23:16,380
I need to be there for my team and so I

591
00:23:12,900 –> 00:23:18,120
had gone back in the first day after in

592
00:23:16,380 –> 00:23:21,000
the in the in the new year to start

593
00:23:18,120 –> 00:23:22,380
interviewing my team for their jobs in a

594
00:23:21,000 –> 00:23:24,299
restructure that I didn’t agree with

595
00:23:22,380 –> 00:23:26,400
didn’t think it was being done correctly

596
00:23:24,299 –> 00:23:27,840
I didn’t agree with the way it was being

597
00:23:26,400 –> 00:23:29,280
done didn’t agree with the timing didn’t

598
00:23:27,840 –> 00:23:31,860
agree with anything but I thought you

599
00:23:29,280 –> 00:23:33,059
know if it has to be done it will be me

600
00:23:31,860 –> 00:23:34,620
that leads it because I’m going to make

601
00:23:33,059 –> 00:23:36,840
sure that every single one of my team is

602
00:23:34,620 –> 00:23:39,059
treated fairly and awesomely and treated

603
00:23:36,840 –> 00:23:40,080
like people and supported and all of

604
00:23:39,059 –> 00:23:42,299
that stuff

605
00:23:40,080 –> 00:23:45,059
and it was by the lunchtime of the first

606
00:23:42,299 –> 00:23:46,500
day of interviews that this crippling

607
00:23:45,059 –> 00:23:48,179
pain came

608
00:23:46,500 –> 00:23:49,740
and I was interviewing with two other

609
00:23:48,179 –> 00:23:50,820
directors from across the business they

610
00:23:49,740 –> 00:23:52,500
said Kelly you’re gonna have to go home

611
00:23:50,820 –> 00:23:54,960
I was like absolutely no way right this

612
00:23:52,500 –> 00:23:57,059
is my team we need consistent interview

613
00:23:54,960 –> 00:23:58,140
panels I need to be supporting my team I

614
00:23:57,059 –> 00:24:00,840
need to be supporting my people

615
00:23:58,140 –> 00:24:03,120
understanding that was on the Wednesday

616
00:24:00,840 –> 00:24:04,980
on the Thursday I’d gone so I was

617
00:24:03,120 –> 00:24:06,780
commuting into London so I live like 100

618
00:24:04,980 –> 00:24:08,520
miles out of London I was commuting on

619
00:24:06,780 –> 00:24:09,659
the train takes me about an hour and a

620
00:24:08,520 –> 00:24:12,260
half

621
00:24:09,659 –> 00:24:12,260
um to get in

622
00:24:16,580 –> 00:24:21,620
so it is especially when it’s like three

623
00:24:19,260 –> 00:24:21,620
hours a day

624
00:24:22,740 –> 00:24:26,460
absolutely so I went back in on the

625
00:24:24,720 –> 00:24:28,200
Thursday the pain had gotten even worse

626
00:24:26,460 –> 00:24:29,460
and the same two I was interviewing with

627
00:24:28,200 –> 00:24:30,840
the same two directors they’re like

628
00:24:29,460 –> 00:24:32,400
Kelly you have to go home I was like

629
00:24:30,840 –> 00:24:33,960
nope nope because I’m going to be here

630
00:24:32,400 –> 00:24:36,179
to support my team and make sure it’s a

631
00:24:33,960 –> 00:24:38,340
fair process and blah blah blah blah and

632
00:24:36,179 –> 00:24:39,960
the Friday came couldn’t carry my own

633
00:24:38,340 –> 00:24:41,580
handbag by the Friday because the pain

634
00:24:39,960 –> 00:24:43,799
was so ridiculous couldn’t stand up

635
00:24:41,580 –> 00:24:45,780
straight couldn’t walk properly but

636
00:24:43,799 –> 00:24:47,400
hobbledon did the hour and a half

637
00:24:45,780 –> 00:24:48,780
commute got myself into London got

638
00:24:47,400 –> 00:24:50,039
myself into the office got did myself

639
00:24:48,780 –> 00:24:51,900
the interviews

640
00:24:50,039 –> 00:24:54,179
and it was that night the pain had got

641
00:24:51,900 –> 00:24:55,039
so excruciating on the train on the way

642
00:24:54,179 –> 00:24:59,299
home

643
00:24:55,039 –> 00:25:02,100
that I had gone into the toilet

644
00:24:59,299 –> 00:25:04,740
and in the UK I don’t know if it’s the

645
00:25:02,100 –> 00:25:07,080
same way you are but in the UK we have

646
00:25:04,740 –> 00:25:09,000
like these on the trains not you don’t

647
00:25:07,080 –> 00:25:11,100
get them in every Carriage but there are

648
00:25:09,000 –> 00:25:12,900
these toilets

649
00:25:11,100 –> 00:25:14,820
um to kind of allow for wheelchair

650
00:25:12,900 –> 00:25:16,799
access and they have like the sliding

651
00:25:14,820 –> 00:25:19,140
doors that are kind of like on a curve

652
00:25:16,799 –> 00:25:21,480
you don’t know by pressing the buttons

653
00:25:19,140 –> 00:25:22,799
whether it’s opening or locked or like I

654
00:25:21,480 –> 00:25:24,779
mean it’s just like flashes at you

655
00:25:22,799 –> 00:25:26,640
constantly but I say my biggest

656
00:25:24,779 –> 00:25:28,679
achievement on the way home that day was

657
00:25:26,640 –> 00:25:30,779
actually getting myself the door open

658
00:25:28,679 –> 00:25:32,760
getting into the toilet and locking the

659
00:25:30,779 –> 00:25:34,620
door right because normally you can sit

660
00:25:32,760 –> 00:25:37,640
peeing in those rooms and you think it’s

661
00:25:34,620 –> 00:25:37,640
locked and then somebody else

662
00:25:44,580 –> 00:25:49,700
but that didn’t happen on this day right

663
00:25:46,860 –> 00:25:54,059
so I still wondering

664
00:25:49,700 –> 00:25:56,279
what did happen was I had sat down just

665
00:25:54,059 –> 00:25:59,039
literally to try and kind of you know

666
00:25:56,279 –> 00:26:01,080
Splash my face with water do whatever I

667
00:25:59,039 –> 00:26:03,539
hadn’t realized that I had passed out

668
00:26:01,080 –> 00:26:06,020
until I found myself on the floor having

669
00:26:03,539 –> 00:26:09,120
hit my head on the sink

670
00:26:06,020 –> 00:26:11,059
pain that I was experiencing

671
00:26:09,120 –> 00:26:14,700
but I managed to get myself together

672
00:26:11,059 –> 00:26:17,400
hobbled back to my seat

673
00:26:14,700 –> 00:26:19,260
thankfully I’d managed to get myself off

674
00:26:17,400 –> 00:26:21,240
the train at my own station a friend of

675
00:26:19,260 –> 00:26:23,700
mine had been a few carriages back on

676
00:26:21,240 –> 00:26:25,380
the same train she saw me hobbling

677
00:26:23,700 –> 00:26:27,600
across the the platform at the station

678
00:26:25,380 –> 00:26:30,179
her husband took me to accident an

679
00:26:27,600 –> 00:26:33,360
emergency and that became the first of

680
00:26:30,179 –> 00:26:35,460
my Hospital admissions I was still back

681
00:26:33,360 –> 00:26:37,940
in at work on the Monday I was gonna say

682
00:26:35,460 –> 00:26:37,940
in yourself

683
00:26:41,240 –> 00:26:46,860
let me ask a couple questions

684
00:26:44,039 –> 00:26:48,900
um I identify with that feeling of like

685
00:26:46,860 –> 00:26:52,440
okay this is on me

686
00:26:48,900 –> 00:26:55,380
like I’m the one who has to change this

687
00:26:52,440 –> 00:26:58,559
I’m the only one who could do it

688
00:26:55,380 –> 00:27:00,720
um yeah do you think which is in reality

689
00:26:58,559 –> 00:27:02,840
at least for me but I have a feeling

690
00:27:00,720 –> 00:27:06,360
you’ll agree that’s not

691
00:27:02,840 –> 00:27:08,940
that’s not what it is it’s like you have

692
00:27:06,360 –> 00:27:11,760
a team you have people who can help you

693
00:27:08,940 –> 00:27:14,220
if you ask but I sometimes have trouble

694
00:27:11,760 –> 00:27:15,059
asking for help

695
00:27:14,220 –> 00:27:18,539
um

696
00:27:15,059 –> 00:27:20,220
and do you think possibly it was a

697
00:27:18,539 –> 00:27:22,620
combination of knowing what you were

698
00:27:20,220 –> 00:27:26,340
doing was unethical

699
00:27:22,620 –> 00:27:27,779
um and also that ego of thinking I’m the

700
00:27:26,340 –> 00:27:32,700
only one who could do this in the right

701
00:27:27,779 –> 00:27:35,460
way and like the dichotomy of that

702
00:27:32,700 –> 00:27:36,659
yes I know so with with all of the

703
00:27:35,460 –> 00:27:39,240
research and all of the work that I’ve

704
00:27:36,659 –> 00:27:41,460
done on burnouts since then

705
00:27:39,240 –> 00:27:43,559
the way that I kind of describe it now

706
00:27:41,460 –> 00:27:45,480
is I think when we are in toxic

707
00:27:43,559 –> 00:27:49,440
workplaces

708
00:27:45,480 –> 00:27:52,140
what can happen to us is we start to

709
00:27:49,440 –> 00:27:54,240
change who we are right fundamentally

710
00:27:52,140 –> 00:27:57,480
who we are to try and fit into these

711
00:27:54,240 –> 00:27:59,279
organizations right so this is me these

712
00:27:57,480 –> 00:28:01,860
are my values this is who I am at my

713
00:27:59,279 –> 00:28:04,679
core I’m strong I’m able I’m capable

714
00:28:01,860 –> 00:28:06,299
this is me but we’re in this toxic

715
00:28:04,679 –> 00:28:07,679
environment with all of this crap that’s

716
00:28:06,299 –> 00:28:09,120
going on around us right people not

717
00:28:07,679 –> 00:28:10,020
inviting me to meetings but if they’re

718
00:28:09,120 –> 00:28:11,220
not going to invite me to the meeting

719
00:28:10,020 –> 00:28:12,659
I’m not going to invite them to the

720
00:28:11,220 –> 00:28:13,860
meeting if they’re not going to give me

721
00:28:12,659 –> 00:28:15,840
the information I’m not going to give

722
00:28:13,860 –> 00:28:17,760
them the information and it’s almost

723
00:28:15,840 –> 00:28:19,500
like we then go for kind of Tit for Tat

724
00:28:17,760 –> 00:28:22,380
in these organizations so what we start

725
00:28:19,500 –> 00:28:26,039
to do is step away from who we really

726
00:28:22,380 –> 00:28:28,640
are right my core values are not exclude

727
00:28:26,039 –> 00:28:32,100
people and act like an absolute whatever

728
00:28:28,640 –> 00:28:34,380
my core values are let’s be open honest

729
00:28:32,100 –> 00:28:35,820
transparent all of this stuff so I think

730
00:28:34,380 –> 00:28:37,860
when we’re in those environments that’s

731
00:28:35,820 –> 00:28:40,380
what starts to happen and the way that I

732
00:28:37,860 –> 00:28:43,679
kind of describe that is the further

733
00:28:40,380 –> 00:28:46,080
that we step away from Who We Are the

734
00:28:43,679 –> 00:28:47,580
bigger the Gap we leave for Burnout to

735
00:28:46,080 –> 00:28:50,940
fill

736
00:28:47,580 –> 00:28:54,539
so I I didn’t at the time I like that

737
00:28:50,940 –> 00:28:59,279
yeah so I didn’t necessarily at the time

738
00:28:54,539 –> 00:29:01,020
know that my ego was taking over and my

739
00:28:59,279 –> 00:29:02,220
ego was like it’s gonna be you it’s got

740
00:29:01,020 –> 00:29:05,700
to be you it’s going to be you it’s got

741
00:29:02,220 –> 00:29:08,760
to be you because I wasn’t like I wasn’t

742
00:29:05,700 –> 00:29:09,900
me I wasn’t aligned with who I am and I

743
00:29:08,760 –> 00:29:12,480
just thought I just got to keep going

744
00:29:09,900 –> 00:29:15,240
right if there is all of this toxicity

745
00:29:12,480 –> 00:29:16,440
if there is all of this ego bashing and

746
00:29:15,240 –> 00:29:18,240
there is all of this horrible stuff

747
00:29:16,440 –> 00:29:21,360
going on like I have to be the person

748
00:29:18,240 –> 00:29:23,220
that saves this because my team are at

749
00:29:21,360 –> 00:29:25,200
risk these people are at risk these like

750
00:29:23,220 –> 00:29:29,039
are almost like I have to save everybody

751
00:29:25,200 –> 00:29:31,260
right from this hell right right so I’m

752
00:29:29,039 –> 00:29:32,580
being pulled between I’ve got to do

753
00:29:31,260 –> 00:29:34,080
what’s right because I still have to

754
00:29:32,580 –> 00:29:35,220
keep doing the right thing even though

755
00:29:34,080 –> 00:29:36,659
I’m not doing the right thing because

756
00:29:35,220 –> 00:29:39,539
I’m starting to change my behaviors

757
00:29:36,659 –> 00:29:41,100
right but the core driver of me is like

758
00:29:39,539 –> 00:29:42,779
but you’ve got to keep going right you

759
00:29:41,100 –> 00:29:45,240
can change this Kelly you can change it

760
00:29:42,779 –> 00:29:47,340
you can change it you can change it and

761
00:29:45,240 –> 00:29:49,799
so in that that’s when the ego steps

762
00:29:47,340 –> 00:29:52,200
over far but seven months later and

763
00:29:49,799 –> 00:29:53,700
every time I was admitted to hospital I

764
00:29:52,200 –> 00:29:55,080
was still working on my hospital bed

765
00:29:53,700 –> 00:29:56,340
right I don’t know if you I don’t know

766
00:29:55,080 –> 00:29:59,000
if any of you two are like fans of

767
00:29:56,340 –> 00:30:01,740
friends like TV series friends

768
00:29:59,000 –> 00:30:04,980
I’ve seen it I’m not a fan but the one

769
00:30:01,740 –> 00:30:08,100
where first gives birth where Phoebe no

770
00:30:04,980 –> 00:30:09,720
no so they do like I think it’s Janice

771
00:30:08,100 –> 00:30:11,340
like Chandler’s uh Chandler’s girlfriend

772
00:30:09,720 –> 00:30:12,960
Janice she’s like I don’t know like what

773
00:30:11,340 –> 00:30:15,539
would be what would be different for all

774
00:30:12,960 –> 00:30:17,100
of you right and they all go down this

775
00:30:15,539 –> 00:30:19,140
route of like this kind of alter it’s

776
00:30:17,100 –> 00:30:20,820
like the sliding doors moment right the

777
00:30:19,140 –> 00:30:23,159
alternative Lifestyles that they could

778
00:30:20,820 –> 00:30:24,200
tell when she’s when Phoebe’s in the

779
00:30:23,159 –> 00:30:26,539
House

780
00:30:24,200 –> 00:30:30,779
Executive yeah

781
00:30:26,539 –> 00:30:33,120
yeah smoking in the toilet typing away

782
00:30:30,779 –> 00:30:35,940
on her laptop on her like on on her

783
00:30:33,120 –> 00:30:38,399
phone not completely like yeah just

784
00:30:35,940 –> 00:30:41,340
having had like yeah sir like hernia

785
00:30:38,399 –> 00:30:43,860
having had a heart attack yeah yeah okay

786
00:30:41,340 –> 00:30:45,659
that that was me yeah that was me every

787
00:30:43,860 –> 00:30:48,240
time I was rushed into Hospital

788
00:30:45,659 –> 00:30:50,880
that was me and I look back at it now

789
00:30:48,240 –> 00:30:53,760
and I’m like how could you

790
00:30:50,880 –> 00:30:56,100
I I was the same way like after I gave

791
00:30:53,760 –> 00:30:58,740
birth to my daughter I was so bored

792
00:30:56,100 –> 00:31:00,960
because she had to go to NICU just

793
00:30:58,740 –> 00:31:02,820
because it was in the like right in the

794
00:31:00,960 –> 00:31:05,460
middle of covid and that’s what the

795
00:31:02,820 –> 00:31:07,919
hospital’s procedure was at the time I

796
00:31:05,460 –> 00:31:09,539
was so bored I was working but I own my

797
00:31:07,919 –> 00:31:12,899
own company so I think it’s a little bit

798
00:31:09,539 –> 00:31:16,020
different like but but I get that I get

799
00:31:12,899 –> 00:31:19,200
like being like Oh I just I literally

800
00:31:16,020 –> 00:31:23,840
just ripped my entire bottom open and

801
00:31:19,200 –> 00:31:28,140
here I am working here I am on my laptop

802
00:31:23,840 –> 00:31:30,260
yeah yeah no I guess and I I also really

803
00:31:28,140 –> 00:31:33,480
deeply identify with

804
00:31:30,260 –> 00:31:37,679
slowly becoming someone that you can’t

805
00:31:33,480 –> 00:31:39,960
recognize but also like your ego also

806
00:31:37,679 –> 00:31:42,899
taking over like knowing you can still

807
00:31:39,960 –> 00:31:45,360
do this knowing you know all of that

808
00:31:42,899 –> 00:31:48,179
like that was exactly what mine looked

809
00:31:45,360 –> 00:31:51,480
like mine was not nearly as as

810
00:31:48,179 –> 00:31:53,760
pronounced as yours was but I talk about

811
00:31:51,480 –> 00:31:54,320
it a lot I got like really bad skin

812
00:31:53,760 –> 00:31:55,860
infection

813
00:31:54,320 –> 00:31:58,020
[Music]

814
00:31:55,860 –> 00:32:01,340
um like on my face it looked like I was

815
00:31:58,020 –> 00:32:04,320
like like I had leprosy more or less

816
00:32:01,340 –> 00:32:07,919
yeah antibiotics for like two full

817
00:32:04,320 –> 00:32:10,740
months to just clear it so not nearly as

818
00:32:07,919 –> 00:32:13,500
Extreme as yours but I also got out a

819
00:32:10,740 –> 00:32:15,240
lot quicker I was smarter I was smarter

820
00:32:13,500 –> 00:32:17,820
when I was stuck in the cult for four

821
00:32:15,240 –> 00:32:19,980
years and I was there for like four

822
00:32:17,820 –> 00:32:22,380
months and I was like I’m out I was like

823
00:32:19,980 –> 00:32:24,299
[ __ ] this I’m out so back to your story

824
00:32:22,380 –> 00:32:26,279
so what was the final thing that

825
00:32:24,299 –> 00:32:29,940
happened that you first of all were you

826
00:32:26,279 –> 00:32:31,740
fired or did you leave no so I I left

827
00:32:29,940 –> 00:32:33,299
but not until like another year later

828
00:32:31,740 –> 00:32:36,380
after those after those first symptoms

829
00:32:33,299 –> 00:32:39,539
so the first symptoms starting January

830
00:32:36,380 –> 00:32:41,520

2013. as I said I was in and out of

831
00:32:39,539 –> 00:32:43,919
Hospital still working still doing all

832
00:32:41,520 –> 00:32:46,020
that stuff in the in the July

833
00:32:43,919 –> 00:32:47,820
um because of the high stress and again

834
00:32:46,020 –> 00:32:51,000
I think we like I have to make this

835
00:32:47,820 –> 00:32:54,120
point burnout is chronic stress right

836
00:32:51,000 –> 00:32:56,220
it’s chronic workplace stress so high

837
00:32:54,120 –> 00:32:58,860
levels of stress for very high periods

838
00:32:56,220 –> 00:33:02,340
of time we all know chronic stress can

839
00:32:58,860 –> 00:33:05,820
literally kill us right so

840
00:33:02,340 –> 00:33:08,880
um so I had uh physically the physical

841
00:33:05,820 –> 00:33:10,799
symptoms so I ended up having two

842
00:33:08,880 –> 00:33:14,279
different operations at two different

843
00:33:10,799 –> 00:33:18,000
hospitals in 48 hours in the July

844
00:33:14,279 –> 00:33:19,919
and whilst I was recovering from that I

845
00:33:18,000 –> 00:33:22,019
um you know had a holiday I had a family

846
00:33:19,919 –> 00:33:24,840
holiday did you know do kind of all that

847
00:33:22,019 –> 00:33:28,679
stuff but before I got on that holiday

848
00:33:24,840 –> 00:33:30,720
I was and again I I kind of pro I was

849
00:33:28,679 –> 00:33:32,760
proving my worth through whether I could

850
00:33:30,720 –> 00:33:34,860
still work right and after these

851
00:33:32,760 –> 00:33:36,659
operations I had a few days where I

852
00:33:34,860 –> 00:33:39,260
could not work my body particularly

853
00:33:36,659 –> 00:33:43,140
after like two anesthetics

854
00:33:39,260 –> 00:33:45,059
you’re just like yeah yeah you could

855
00:33:43,140 –> 00:33:46,559
just sleep absolutely my body’s just

856
00:33:45,059 –> 00:33:49,559
like not today

857
00:33:46,559 –> 00:33:52,519
uh and I was laying on the sofa like

858
00:33:49,559 –> 00:33:55,980
watching having watched mind numbing TV

859
00:33:52,519 –> 00:33:59,159
all day and my sons came home from

860
00:33:55,980 –> 00:34:03,059
school so I have it’s not my bag really

861
00:33:59,159 –> 00:34:05,039
not my bag but um I had I have twin Sons

862
00:34:03,059 –> 00:34:06,720
they were 12 at the time they came home

863
00:34:05,039 –> 00:34:11,159
from school and I think I must have

864
00:34:06,720 –> 00:34:14,580
looked terrible like terrible and my

865
00:34:11,159 –> 00:34:16,500
response to them was don’t worry I’m

866
00:34:14,580 –> 00:34:18,240
gonna be absolutely fine soon and I’m

867
00:34:16,500 –> 00:34:20,280
going to be back at work right because

868
00:34:18,240 –> 00:34:22,379
being back at work was the sign that I

869
00:34:20,280 –> 00:34:23,820
was okay and my son took one look at

870
00:34:22,379 –> 00:34:26,040
each other they’re 12 years old at the

871
00:34:23,820 –> 00:34:27,659
time took one look at each other sat on

872
00:34:26,040 –> 00:34:29,099
the coffee table in front of me and one

873
00:34:27,659 –> 00:34:30,359
of them said but mum we don’t want you

874
00:34:29,099 –> 00:34:32,839
to go back to work because your job is

875
00:34:30,359 –> 00:34:37,560
killing you whoa

876
00:34:32,839 –> 00:34:39,960
yeah yeah like that was say [ __ ] like

877
00:34:37,560 –> 00:34:42,599
when your 12 year olds look you in the

878
00:34:39,960 –> 00:34:45,679
eye yeah yeah when you’re 12 years no

879
00:34:42,599 –> 00:34:48,720
better than you and no better than you

880
00:34:45,679 –> 00:34:51,359
it’s like a watershed moment so was that

881
00:34:48,720 –> 00:34:54,300
your mom absolutely yeah that was my

882
00:34:51,359 –> 00:34:58,020
holy [ __ ] moment right something has to

883
00:34:54,300 –> 00:34:59,760
change what am I doing and it was then

884
00:34:58,020 –> 00:35:01,380
almost like all of the last seven months

885
00:34:59,760 –> 00:35:03,180
like my sons have been coming to visit

886
00:35:01,380 –> 00:35:04,560
me every time I was in hospital and

887
00:35:03,180 –> 00:35:06,000
they’d see me on my phone and they’d see

888
00:35:04,560 –> 00:35:07,380
me with my laptop and they’d see me not

889
00:35:06,000 –> 00:35:09,240
taking a day off they’d see me not be

890
00:35:07,380 –> 00:35:10,380
able to stand up they’d seen me not

891
00:35:09,240 –> 00:35:12,119
being able to get out of bed at a

892
00:35:10,380 –> 00:35:13,560
weekend they’d see me have to say no to

893
00:35:12,119 –> 00:35:15,240
some of their stuff

894
00:35:13,560 –> 00:35:16,079
and I’m still like where everything’s

895
00:35:15,240 –> 00:35:17,880
fine

896
00:35:16,079 –> 00:35:21,180
right literally everything’s fine

897
00:35:17,880 –> 00:35:23,099
and uh so that was kind of my Pinnacle

898
00:35:21,180 –> 00:35:25,320
like something has to change moment we

899
00:35:23,099 –> 00:35:26,880
then had gone we went on a on a lovely

900
00:35:25,320 –> 00:35:29,640
family holiday we had a couple of weeks

901
00:35:26,880 –> 00:35:31,680
off and I just then decided that I was

902
00:35:29,640 –> 00:35:34,200
going back into this workplace back into

903
00:35:31,680 –> 00:35:37,260
the office I was going to kick ass I was

904
00:35:34,200 –> 00:35:39,660
gonna be me and if they didn’t like it

905
00:35:37,260 –> 00:35:41,280
we weren’t you know things weren’t going

906
00:35:39,660 –> 00:35:43,440
to work out between me and me and the

907
00:35:41,280 –> 00:35:45,780
organization and I really kind of pulled

908
00:35:43,440 –> 00:35:48,000
myself together cut all my hair off like

909
00:35:45,780 –> 00:35:49,859
bleached it blonde like went back with

910
00:35:48,000 –> 00:35:51,480
the edgiest look ever I’m like right

911
00:35:49,859 –> 00:35:54,060
Kelly’s back right and I’ve you know

912
00:35:51,480 –> 00:35:57,060
kind of got my sass on and I walked in

913
00:35:54,060 –> 00:36:01,500
and I lasted uh so I’ve gone back in in

914
00:35:57,060 –> 00:36:04,560
the uh September by the January I had

915
00:36:01,500 –> 00:36:06,119
left started my own company and have

916
00:36:04,560 –> 00:36:08,520
never gone back into a corporate

917
00:36:06,119 –> 00:36:12,240
environment again and it was the best

918
00:36:08,520 –> 00:36:13,560
decision that I ever made the timing I

919
00:36:12,240 –> 00:36:16,140
think could have been better so at the

920
00:36:13,560 –> 00:36:19,380
time I mean my life looks nothing the

921
00:36:16,140 –> 00:36:20,760
same as as it did then but

922
00:36:19,380 –> 00:36:22,619
um so yeah you know I got my first

923
00:36:20,760 –> 00:36:25,200
clients like a couple of weeks in into

924
00:36:22,619 –> 00:36:26,339
starting my company but at the time I

925
00:36:25,200 –> 00:36:27,660
remember going home and saying to my

926
00:36:26,339 –> 00:36:29,280
husband I need to start my own company

927
00:36:27,660 –> 00:36:31,560
this is this is absolutely what I need

928
00:36:29,280 –> 00:36:33,420
to do and I was the main Breadwinner

929
00:36:31,560 –> 00:36:35,940
right I was the biggest salary earner we

930
00:36:33,420 –> 00:36:37,500
literally just spent every single of our

931
00:36:35,940 –> 00:36:39,480
last Pennies on kind of buying and

932
00:36:37,500 –> 00:36:42,359
renovating a house like we had no money

933
00:36:39,480 –> 00:36:45,000
in the bank at all

934
00:36:42,359 –> 00:36:47,160
um and he’s like we can’t do it like you

935
00:36:45,000 –> 00:36:48,480
need to keep working for two years and

936
00:36:47,160 –> 00:36:50,160
then if you still want to run your own

937
00:36:48,480 –> 00:36:53,099
business then you can do it and it was

938
00:36:50,160 –> 00:36:54,900
like not staying here uh and I left so I

939
00:36:53,099 –> 00:36:56,880
literally started my business like with

940
00:36:54,900 –> 00:36:59,400
no Financial cushion

941
00:36:56,880 –> 00:37:03,240
uh no money in the bank

942
00:36:59,400 –> 00:37:05,520
no client pipeline most of my network

943
00:37:03,240 –> 00:37:07,140
was in London as I said I live like 100

944
00:37:05,520 –> 00:37:08,520
miles away from there what was my

945
00:37:07,140 –> 00:37:11,040
business going to look like how was I

946
00:37:08,520 –> 00:37:12,780
going to do it and I started building it

947
00:37:11,040 –> 00:37:16,079
from scratch

948
00:37:12,780 –> 00:37:17,640
with literally nothing got my first

949
00:37:16,079 –> 00:37:20,160
client within a couple of weeks started

950
00:37:17,640 –> 00:37:22,380
to get some money in the bank

951
00:37:20,160 –> 00:37:24,839
um kept pushing kept struggling my

952
00:37:22,380 –> 00:37:26,820
husband and I separated or yeah

953
00:37:24,839 –> 00:37:28,320
separated kind of within a year of me

954
00:37:26,820 –> 00:37:33,839
starting my own business

955
00:37:28,320 –> 00:37:36,900
So within probably well within 12 months

956
00:37:33,839 –> 00:37:39,900
of those first physical symptoms taking

957
00:37:36,900 –> 00:37:42,240
over I had started a business left my

958
00:37:39,900 –> 00:37:44,520
husband moved house

959
00:37:42,240 –> 00:37:47,220
um started to grow a team like there was

960
00:37:44,520 –> 00:37:49,800
nothing that I hadn’t done and then kind

961
00:37:47,220 –> 00:37:51,540
of six months later burned out again can

962
00:37:49,800 –> 00:37:54,060
we just cause here for a second and

963
00:37:51,540 –> 00:37:55,920
remind people that if this podcast is

964
00:37:54,060 –> 00:37:57,660
something you enjoy we would love to

965
00:37:55,920 –> 00:37:59,880
hear from you you can find us on

966
00:37:57,660 –> 00:38:02,820
Instagram LinkedIn and YouTube at let’s

967
00:37:59,880 –> 00:38:04,859
break up toxic workplace stories sharing

968
00:38:02,820 –> 00:38:07,619
and subscribing really helps us feel

969
00:38:04,859 –> 00:38:09,900
validated it was like and what is this

970
00:38:07,619 –> 00:38:10,980
so wait I have two questions when you

971
00:38:09,900 –> 00:38:14,400
finally yeah

972
00:38:10,980 –> 00:38:17,640
the toxic place that gave you those

973
00:38:14,400 –> 00:38:19,740
terrible symptoms yeah did they did they

974
00:38:17,640 –> 00:38:21,599
cease almost immediately or was it like

975
00:38:19,740 –> 00:38:25,020
a tapering off

976
00:38:21,599 –> 00:38:27,599
of no I mean it took forever and

977
00:38:25,020 –> 00:38:29,760
for some of the conditions so my first

978
00:38:27,599 –> 00:38:32,160
well I can’t say whether it was it well

979
00:38:29,760 –> 00:38:34,320
the physical symptoms so uh particularly

980
00:38:32,160 –> 00:38:35,940
kind of digestive issues like lots of

981
00:38:34,320 –> 00:38:37,440
physical you know I’m carrying an awful

982
00:38:35,940 –> 00:38:40,200
lot of weight like it’s pretty much like

983
00:38:37,440 –> 00:38:41,579
my body just shut down after that first

984
00:38:40,200 –> 00:38:44,400
one it was just I’m not I’m not playing

985
00:38:41,579 –> 00:38:46,520
ball anymore so I live with kind of two

986
00:38:44,400 –> 00:38:48,720
fairly physical

987
00:38:46,520 –> 00:38:49,980
seriously physical

988
00:38:48,720 –> 00:38:52,560
um kind of health conditions which I

989
00:38:49,980 –> 00:38:55,680
which I manage okay

990
00:38:52,560 –> 00:38:57,540
um but I I get I wasn’t managing them

991
00:38:55,680 –> 00:38:59,099
properly because I think at the time I

992
00:38:57,540 –> 00:39:02,480
just thought it would go away now I’m

993
00:38:59,099 –> 00:39:04,740
out of there right right

994
00:39:02,480 –> 00:39:07,380
yeah yeah everything will get better

995
00:39:04,740 –> 00:39:08,640
there’s nothing I need to do and when

996
00:39:07,380 –> 00:39:09,839
you’re running your own business but

997
00:39:08,640 –> 00:39:11,460
particularly when you’re starting your

998
00:39:09,839 –> 00:39:14,540
own business right oh my God you’re

999
00:39:11,460 –> 00:39:14,540
going 24 7.

1000
00:39:17,599 –> 00:39:23,220
yeah literally it is 24 7. because you

1001
00:39:22,079 –> 00:39:24,480
need to find the clients you need to

1002
00:39:23,220 –> 00:39:26,760
keep the money in the bank you’ve got to

1003
00:39:24,480 –> 00:39:28,020
do the marketing the admin the accounts

1004
00:39:26,760 –> 00:39:29,520
right you’ve got to be doing all of that

1005
00:39:28,020 –> 00:39:30,480
stuff and I was loving doing what I was

1006
00:39:29,520 –> 00:39:32,400
doing right I was doing it for myself

1007
00:39:30,480 –> 00:39:34,020
this was this was my turn around so

1008
00:39:32,400 –> 00:39:36,599
really really doing all of that but I

1009
00:39:34,020 –> 00:39:38,520
got a phone call three months into

1010
00:39:36,599 –> 00:39:40,859
starting my business

1011
00:39:38,520 –> 00:39:42,540
to say that my Replacements are the

1012
00:39:40,859 –> 00:39:44,640
replacement HR director that have been

1013
00:39:42,540 –> 00:39:48,480
taken in to replace me there’s no word

1014
00:39:44,640 –> 00:39:50,820
of a lie she had died what whilst away

1015
00:39:48,480 –> 00:39:53,220
on a leadership residential right so on

1016
00:39:50,820 –> 00:39:56,760
a leadership residential

1017
00:39:53,220 –> 00:40:01,200
she was uh early 50s

1018
00:39:56,760 –> 00:40:04,140
okay so not as young and she had died no

1019
00:40:01,200 –> 00:40:06,000
she’s 20 years older than me okay but

1020
00:40:04,140 –> 00:40:08,280
she died in her sleep whilst awareness

1021
00:40:06,000 –> 00:40:11,099
leadership residential and I then rang

1022
00:40:08,280 –> 00:40:12,780
another contact of mine who had left the

1023
00:40:11,099 –> 00:40:14,359
organization not long after I started

1024
00:40:12,780 –> 00:40:17,579
but he and I had stayed in contact

1025
00:40:14,359 –> 00:40:20,820
because I’d never asked nobody had ever

1026
00:40:17,579 –> 00:40:25,560
really told me stupidly

1027
00:40:20,820 –> 00:40:27,420
why my job role was recruited right I

1028
00:40:25,560 –> 00:40:29,160
just been told the hrd is left to go go

1029
00:40:27,420 –> 00:40:32,099
and do something else yeah why was there

1030
00:40:29,160 –> 00:40:34,500
at that point yeah at that point I

1031
00:40:32,099 –> 00:40:36,660
started digging there were three I was

1032
00:40:34,500 –> 00:40:39,119
the third HR Director to because

1033
00:40:36,660 –> 00:40:41,760
seriously ill in that organization

1034
00:40:39,119 –> 00:40:44,040
and my replacement then dies whilst away

1035
00:40:41,760 –> 00:40:45,900
at a leadership residential so then I’m

1036
00:40:44,040 –> 00:40:48,780
like alarm Bells right because I came

1037
00:40:45,900 –> 00:40:50,099
out of that and part of me was still I

1038
00:40:48,780 –> 00:40:52,800
clearly I must have been out because I

1039
00:40:50,099 –> 00:40:54,720
wasn’t good enough at the job I was I

1040
00:40:52,800 –> 00:40:57,119
was a failure it was the wrong company

1041
00:40:54,720 –> 00:40:58,740
so I started you’re internalizing all of

1042
00:40:57,119 –> 00:41:01,440
that stuff as well which I now know to

1043
00:40:58,740 –> 00:41:03,000
be absolute rubbish I’m absolutely

1044
00:41:01,440 –> 00:41:04,260
amazing and I was amazing and it was

1045
00:41:03,000 –> 00:41:06,359
just you know it was the organization

1046
00:41:04,260 –> 00:41:08,220
and lots of you know a few other things

1047
00:41:06,359 –> 00:41:09,540
but it wasn’t that I failed it wasn’t

1048
00:41:08,220 –> 00:41:12,900
that I wasn’t good enough at my job

1049
00:41:09,540 –> 00:41:14,400
agree yep and so kind of three months

1050
00:41:12,900 –> 00:41:15,960
into starting my own business that’s

1051
00:41:14,400 –> 00:41:18,839
when I really wanted to get under the

1052
00:41:15,960 –> 00:41:21,420
skin of burnout and stress and I started

1053
00:41:18,839 –> 00:41:22,980
doing courses and training so in

1054
00:41:21,420 –> 00:41:24,900
addition to the qualifications that I

1055
00:41:22,980 –> 00:41:27,300
already had that was really when I

1056
00:41:24,900 –> 00:41:29,280
started to study neuroscience and

1057
00:41:27,300 –> 00:41:30,780
hypnotherapy and Psychotherapy and

1058
00:41:29,280 –> 00:41:32,400
understand stress are the impact to

1059
00:41:30,780 –> 00:41:35,339
stress on the body and I started

1060
00:41:32,400 –> 00:41:37,140
studying yoga and ayurveda and all of

1061
00:41:35,339 –> 00:41:39,060
these things

1062
00:41:37,140 –> 00:41:40,079
because I wanted to ensure that nobody

1063
00:41:39,060 –> 00:41:41,640
else was ever going to go through

1064
00:41:40,079 –> 00:41:43,740
burnout again

1065
00:41:41,640 –> 00:41:46,380
right and then yeah within kind of 18

1066
00:41:43,740 –> 00:41:49,320
months I’ve been out again

1067
00:41:46,380 –> 00:41:52,859
so okay I genuinely thought I was doing

1068
00:41:49,320 –> 00:41:54,380
the right thing yeah my question is did

1069
00:41:52,859 –> 00:41:57,300
this burn out

1070
00:41:54,380 –> 00:41:59,220
resemble the corporate because now

1071
00:41:57,300 –> 00:42:00,780
you’re working for yourself so it is

1072
00:41:59,220 –> 00:42:03,000
Corporate but it’s slightly different

1073
00:42:00,780 –> 00:42:05,220
like even though I have a company and I

1074
00:42:03,000 –> 00:42:08,280
have people working for me I don’t

1075
00:42:05,220 –> 00:42:11,040
consider it a corporate setting yeah

1076
00:42:08,280 –> 00:42:14,280
like more creative anyway in what we do

1077
00:42:11,040 –> 00:42:15,300
but we’re working with huge companies

1078
00:42:14,280 –> 00:42:18,180
um so

1079
00:42:15,300 –> 00:42:20,579
did this burnout look different than the

1080
00:42:18,180 –> 00:42:24,300
corporate burnout

1081
00:42:20,579 –> 00:42:27,599
yes yeah okay it was much more

1082
00:42:24,300 –> 00:42:30,300
it was much more emotional and I think

1083
00:42:27,599 –> 00:42:32,280
it it like it sucks the life out of me

1084
00:42:30,300 –> 00:42:34,380
immediately so I think the first time

1085
00:42:32,280 –> 00:42:36,140
around whilst I was dealing with these

1086
00:42:34,380 –> 00:42:39,540
physical symptoms

1087
00:42:36,140 –> 00:42:41,520
if you’d have said to me

1088
00:42:39,540 –> 00:42:43,560
like you’ve got to stop I would have

1089
00:42:41,520 –> 00:42:45,240
told you I could just keep on going

1090
00:42:43,560 –> 00:42:47,400
and I did keep on going right I was

1091
00:42:45,240 –> 00:42:52,079
working from a hospital bed like I kept

1092
00:42:47,400 –> 00:42:54,119
on going the second time it was like

1093
00:42:52,079 –> 00:42:57,060
somebody had turned the lights off

1094
00:42:54,119 –> 00:42:58,560
right like you can’t move I was

1095
00:42:57,060 –> 00:43:00,540
struggling to get out of bed I was

1096
00:42:58,560 –> 00:43:03,000
struggling to pull a sentence together I

1097
00:43:00,540 –> 00:43:06,619
was struggling to have a conversation my

1098
00:43:03,000 –> 00:43:09,180
entire body just felt like a dead weight

1099
00:43:06,619 –> 00:43:12,000
like literally like someone had turned

1100
00:43:09,180 –> 00:43:14,040
the lights off and it was just like I

1101
00:43:12,000 –> 00:43:15,240
just kind of I just got like I had no

1102
00:43:14,040 –> 00:43:18,540
strength

1103
00:43:15,240 –> 00:43:21,300
I had no energy picking up a glass of

1104
00:43:18,540 –> 00:43:23,400
water was too heavy

1105
00:43:21,300 –> 00:43:26,280
so and this was somebody that had been

1106
00:43:23,400 –> 00:43:28,380
like fit I say fit and healthy until

1107
00:43:26,280 –> 00:43:30,359
until bed at number one right but I was

1108
00:43:28,380 –> 00:43:32,520
still doing my exercise my yoga my

1109
00:43:30,359 –> 00:43:35,220
weights my cycling I’m still doing all

1110
00:43:32,520 –> 00:43:37,319
of that stuff but my literally picking

1111
00:43:35,220 –> 00:43:39,359
up a glass of water became too heavy and

1112
00:43:37,319 –> 00:43:41,640
I just I just shut down

1113
00:43:39,359 –> 00:43:42,780
so do you think any of that might have

1114
00:43:41,640 –> 00:43:46,079
been

1115
00:43:42,780 –> 00:43:49,619
either clinical depression

1116
00:43:46,079 –> 00:43:52,440
and or like a second wave from the

1117
00:43:49,619 –> 00:43:55,380
original burnout I think a bit both if

1118
00:43:52,440 –> 00:43:57,599
I’m honest and a number two so I was

1119
00:43:55,380 –> 00:43:59,819
then diagnosed with bipolar in 2018.

1120
00:43:57,599 –> 00:44:02,700
whilst nobody can say to me where that

1121
00:43:59,819 –> 00:44:04,020
came from the belief is that two

1122
00:44:02,700 –> 00:44:07,140
burnouts in really really quick

1123
00:44:04,020 –> 00:44:09,720
succession definitely contributed to it

1124
00:44:07,140 –> 00:44:12,060
so I do think it was a bit of both I did

1125
00:44:09,720 –> 00:44:14,160
and I’ve written about this and talked

1126
00:44:12,060 –> 00:44:17,579
about this quite a lot I think

1127
00:44:14,160 –> 00:44:19,800
I assumed that I had recovered from

1128
00:44:17,579 –> 00:44:22,200
burnout number one

1129
00:44:19,800 –> 00:44:24,359
by learning all the things that I needed

1130
00:44:22,200 –> 00:44:26,099
to know about burnout and ensuring that

1131
00:44:24,359 –> 00:44:29,160
I was helping everybody else not do it

1132
00:44:26,099 –> 00:44:31,560
and like I was probably doing like

1133
00:44:29,160 –> 00:44:32,760
20 things a day right to make sure that

1134
00:44:31,560 –> 00:44:34,319
I didn’t burn out again right got to

1135
00:44:32,760 –> 00:44:36,060
keep my stress levels low so I’ve got 20

1136
00:44:34,319 –> 00:44:39,240
things as long as I tick these 20 things

1137
00:44:36,060 –> 00:44:40,800
off this is how I’m gonna reduce this is

1138
00:44:39,240 –> 00:44:42,720
how I’m going to do all this so I can

1139
00:44:40,800 –> 00:44:45,359
give you burnout from trying not to be

1140
00:44:42,720 –> 00:44:46,740
burned out absolutely absolutely and

1141
00:44:45,359 –> 00:44:49,020
that’s exactly what it did but I

1142
00:44:46,740 –> 00:44:50,940
genuinely thought this is where it is

1143
00:44:49,020 –> 00:44:52,560
but I had told myself I had recovered

1144
00:44:50,940 –> 00:44:55,380
from my first burnout

1145
00:44:52,560 –> 00:44:57,420
the second burnout

1146
00:44:55,380 –> 00:45:00,300
and I I talk about this this difference

1147
00:44:57,420 –> 00:45:01,740
quite a lot the second one I really it

1148
00:45:00,300 –> 00:45:07,020
wasn’t just a case if I needed to

1149
00:45:01,740 –> 00:45:09,060
recover from I had to heal from it and

1150
00:45:07,020 –> 00:45:10,619
the healing needed to be an inside job

1151
00:45:09,060 –> 00:45:13,140
like there was a lot of interest like

1152
00:45:10,619 –> 00:45:14,940
there was no longer looking out looked

1153
00:45:13,140 –> 00:45:17,819
like looking outwards and like give me

1154
00:45:14,940 –> 00:45:20,880
the textbook answer on how to avoid

1155
00:45:17,819 –> 00:45:23,940
burnout and reduce my stress the second

1156
00:45:20,880 –> 00:45:25,859
burnout meant a lot of introspection a

1157
00:45:23,940 –> 00:45:28,619
lot of inward looking a lot of

1158
00:45:25,859 –> 00:45:31,619
self-discovery and self-exploration and

1159
00:45:28,619 –> 00:45:33,300
a lot of unlearning and relearning and a

1160
00:45:31,619 –> 00:45:36,960
lot of change

1161
00:45:33,300 –> 00:45:38,520
in order to allow me to heal from it and

1162
00:45:36,960 –> 00:45:40,680
I know that I will never ever go back to

1163
00:45:38,520 –> 00:45:43,980
that point again like never I’m curious

1164
00:45:40,680 –> 00:45:45,480
to know like how do you identify the

1165
00:45:43,980 –> 00:45:47,240
symptoms if you’re coming up for Burnout

1166
00:45:45,480 –> 00:45:50,040
number four like how do you now know

1167
00:45:47,240 –> 00:45:52,020
what to look out for and the flags

1168
00:45:50,040 –> 00:45:53,819
you’re looking for before you get to

1169
00:45:52,020 –> 00:45:56,579
that point

1170
00:45:53,819 –> 00:45:58,200
so I’m I’m so I’m too bad now so I hope

1171
00:45:56,579 –> 00:46:02,040
they’ll never ever get to the third but

1172
00:45:58,200 –> 00:46:03,420
I think the symptoms can be very I think

1173
00:46:02,040 –> 00:46:05,460
very similar and very similar for

1174
00:46:03,420 –> 00:46:08,099
everybody I think if I get to the point

1175
00:46:05,460 –> 00:46:09,960
so some of them are behavioral some of

1176
00:46:08,099 –> 00:46:12,359
them are physical

1177
00:46:09,960 –> 00:46:14,819
some of them really are kind of mental

1178
00:46:12,359 –> 00:46:16,800
so I think we can

1179
00:46:14,819 –> 00:46:18,540
um we can start to get headaches right

1180
00:46:16,800 –> 00:46:21,060
so headaches

1181
00:46:18,540 –> 00:46:22,560
um digestive issues so we start to

1182
00:46:21,060 –> 00:46:24,839
develop intolerances for food we’re

1183
00:46:22,560 –> 00:46:26,520
overeating or we’re under eating more

1184
00:46:24,839 –> 00:46:28,140
more Foods start to disagree with us

1185
00:46:26,520 –> 00:46:30,000
more headaches

1186
00:46:28,140 –> 00:46:33,420
um our sleep starts to go out the window

1187
00:46:30,000 –> 00:46:35,220
our anxiety can increase we can start to

1188
00:46:33,420 –> 00:46:36,480
feel depressed

1189
00:46:35,220 –> 00:46:38,640
um so depression can definitely

1190
00:46:36,480 –> 00:46:40,079
definitely creep in so I think they are

1191
00:46:38,640 –> 00:46:43,380
some of those things

1192
00:46:40,079 –> 00:46:45,540
I then think there is this need to

1193
00:46:43,380 –> 00:46:48,359
perfect everything right you’ve got to

1194
00:46:45,540 –> 00:46:50,160
be perfect if that if that kind of you

1195
00:46:48,359 –> 00:46:52,260
have to do this perfectly Creeps in for

1196
00:46:50,160 –> 00:46:53,460
me that’s a trigger that something needs

1197
00:46:52,260 –> 00:46:55,560
to change

1198
00:46:53,460 –> 00:46:57,619
but I think the biggest there were two

1199
00:46:55,560 –> 00:47:00,420
of the biggest things the first is

1200
00:46:57,619 –> 00:47:02,640
withdrawing from the things that you

1201
00:47:00,420 –> 00:47:05,040
know about like are the are the best

1202
00:47:02,640 –> 00:47:06,420
things for you right if I if I want to

1203
00:47:05,040 –> 00:47:09,240
withdraw

1204
00:47:06,420 –> 00:47:10,920
from say my yoga that for me is a sign

1205
00:47:09,240 –> 00:47:12,660
that something is wrong if I want to

1206
00:47:10,920 –> 00:47:14,520
withdraw from spending time with my

1207
00:47:12,660 –> 00:47:16,260
family or friends that for me is a sign

1208
00:47:14,520 –> 00:47:18,599
that something is wrong so withdrawing

1209
00:47:16,260 –> 00:47:21,900
from the things that we know Lift us up

1210
00:47:18,599 –> 00:47:25,079
and give us energy but I think also the

1211
00:47:21,900 –> 00:47:27,180
need to be overworking over performing

1212
00:47:25,079 –> 00:47:29,220
and over delivering and I don’t mean

1213
00:47:27,180 –> 00:47:30,660
just like I want to do a really great

1214
00:47:29,220 –> 00:47:32,520
job on this so I’m going to do a couple

1215
00:47:30,660 –> 00:47:33,960
of extra hours today or I’ve got a

1216
00:47:32,520 –> 00:47:36,420
deadline to hit so I’m going to do a

1217
00:47:33,960 –> 00:47:39,720
couple of extra hours a day but I mean

1218
00:47:36,420 –> 00:47:42,660
the overwhelming feeling that I have to

1219
00:47:39,720 –> 00:47:44,520
push I have to deliver I have to make

1220
00:47:42,660 –> 00:47:46,980
this perfect I have to keep going like

1221
00:47:44,520 –> 00:47:48,599
that for me is a real now a Telltale

1222
00:47:46,980 –> 00:47:51,060
sign because that’s being driven by fear

1223
00:47:48,599 –> 00:47:52,800
the fear is causing that stress response

1224
00:47:51,060 –> 00:47:55,260
and that stress response is basically

1225
00:47:52,800 –> 00:47:56,760
telling me it is not safe for you to

1226
00:47:55,260 –> 00:48:00,720
stop

1227
00:47:56,760 –> 00:48:03,740
so for me like it’s my daughter’s gonna

1228
00:48:00,720 –> 00:48:07,740
be three so it’s kind of been this

1229
00:48:03,740 –> 00:48:09,420
ongoing thing of when I’m working I’m

1230
00:48:07,740 –> 00:48:11,460
like I’m a shitty mom because I’m not

1231
00:48:09,420 –> 00:48:14,520
with my daughter like

1232
00:48:11,460 –> 00:48:15,740
you know I I I feel like not spending

1233
00:48:14,520 –> 00:48:18,780
enough time with her

1234
00:48:15,740 –> 00:48:20,280
yeah and then when I’m with her I’m like

1235
00:48:18,780 –> 00:48:23,700
I didn’t do enough today I wasn’t

1236
00:48:20,280 –> 00:48:28,140
productive enough I can never win but I

1237
00:48:23,700 –> 00:48:30,480
do think that hustle culture that was so

1238
00:48:28,140 –> 00:48:33,839
prevalent like in the late 90s early

1239
00:48:30,480 –> 00:48:37,200
2000s really did everyone a disservice

1240
00:48:33,839 –> 00:48:41,040
because the new generation is much more

1241
00:48:37,200 –> 00:48:43,740
involved in a work-life balance I and

1242
00:48:41,040 –> 00:48:45,960
and it’s even like doubly harder for

1243
00:48:43,740 –> 00:48:48,599
someone like myself and if I would

1244
00:48:45,960 –> 00:48:51,300
venture to guess also you who who are

1245
00:48:48,599 –> 00:48:53,339
overachievers and who have started their

1246
00:48:51,300 –> 00:48:55,079
business from scratch with nothing in

1247
00:48:53,339 –> 00:48:58,020
the bank not sure how you were going to

1248
00:48:55,079 –> 00:49:01,560
pay your rent or feed yourself and

1249
00:48:58,020 –> 00:49:04,740
you’re and I think partially that that

1250
00:49:01,560 –> 00:49:07,140
helped me to be successful so early on

1251
00:49:04,740 –> 00:49:09,720
because I had no other choice but I

1252
00:49:07,140 –> 00:49:12,960
think for people like us

1253
00:49:09,720 –> 00:49:15,839
the burnout is

1254
00:49:12,960 –> 00:49:19,980
might happen quicker right because it’s

1255
00:49:15,839 –> 00:49:22,200
like we’re constantly working we’re for

1256
00:49:19,980 –> 00:49:24,240
me the more I work the more money I can

1257
00:49:22,200 –> 00:49:26,220
potentially make

1258
00:49:24,240 –> 00:49:28,619
um yeah so do you have any suggestions

1259
00:49:26,220 –> 00:49:30,960
for people you know who might be

1260
00:49:28,619 –> 00:49:34,140
self-employed or who own their own

1261
00:49:30,960 –> 00:49:37,260
business or entrepreneurial in nature

1262
00:49:34,140 –> 00:49:38,880
um how to avoid burnout you’ve got to

1263
00:49:37,260 –> 00:49:41,160
put the boundaries in place

1264
00:49:38,880 –> 00:49:42,180
um I I know I can absolutely relate to

1265
00:49:41,160 –> 00:49:46,380
what you’re saying about that kind of

1266
00:49:42,180 –> 00:49:48,540
mum Gill I do and I’m I’m gonna say I do

1267
00:49:46,380 –> 00:49:50,579
not believe I don’t believe at all in

1268
00:49:48,540 –> 00:49:53,339
work-life Balance I think it is a

1269
00:49:50,579 –> 00:49:55,800
complete myth and like you were saying

1270
00:49:53,339 –> 00:49:57,920
from that kind of hustle culture I think

1271
00:49:55,800 –> 00:50:00,540
absolutely right and I can remember

1272
00:49:57,920 –> 00:50:02,520
I mean I think I probably came out of

1273
00:50:00,540 –> 00:50:03,260
the womb as an overachiever

1274
00:50:02,520 –> 00:50:05,400
um

1275
00:50:03,260 –> 00:50:06,900
like literally right I was overachieving

1276
00:50:05,400 –> 00:50:09,240
at school I was moved up a year at

1277
00:50:06,900 –> 00:50:11,460
school like you know kind of all of this

1278
00:50:09,240 –> 00:50:13,940
stuff and and so I think part of that

1279
00:50:11,460 –> 00:50:15,900
was was just in my nature but also

1280
00:50:13,940 –> 00:50:17,640
throughout school I mean I can remember

1281
00:50:15,900 –> 00:50:18,720
being you know maybe three or four and

1282
00:50:17,640 –> 00:50:20,400
being asked for you know what do you

1283
00:50:18,720 –> 00:50:21,660
want to be when you grow up right what

1284
00:50:20,400 –> 00:50:23,760
do you want to be what do you want to do

1285
00:50:21,660 –> 00:50:25,859
I can remember looking at some of the

1286
00:50:23,760 –> 00:50:27,599
most expensive houses as a teenager in

1287
00:50:25,859 –> 00:50:29,700
you know the Sunday paper that my mum

1288
00:50:27,599 –> 00:50:31,980
and dad used to get and like millions of

1289
00:50:29,700 –> 00:50:33,599
pounds like people don’t you know people

1290
00:50:31,980 –> 00:50:35,460
like us don’t get houses like that and

1291
00:50:33,599 –> 00:50:36,960
it was like well I’ll show you you know

1292
00:50:35,460 –> 00:50:38,339
and it was kind of you know I’m gonna

1293
00:50:36,960 –> 00:50:40,319
make this happen I’m absolutely gonna

1294
00:50:38,339 –> 00:50:42,060
make this happen and I think wait did

1295
00:50:40,319 –> 00:50:44,940
did you make it happen did you get one

1296
00:50:42,060 –> 00:50:46,859
of those huge homes yeah I had the house

1297
00:50:44,940 –> 00:50:48,359
I had the sports car I had the huge car

1298
00:50:46,859 –> 00:50:49,740
I had the all-inclusive holidays I had

1299
00:50:48,359 –> 00:50:51,240
the red sold cheese the really expensive

1300
00:50:49,740 –> 00:50:53,480
and but like I had it all absolutely had

1301
00:50:51,240 –> 00:50:53,480
it all

1302
00:50:57,380 –> 00:51:03,300
looking back on looking back

1303
00:51:00,240 –> 00:51:04,980
um casting my mind back to the day I

1304
00:51:03,300 –> 00:51:07,079
think the best yeah

1305
00:51:04,980 –> 00:51:08,640
um my mother gave me now my keeping in

1306
00:51:07,079 –> 00:51:10,680
mind my mother was a narcissist so my

1307
00:51:08,640 –> 00:51:13,680
value was built on perfectionism and

1308
00:51:10,680 –> 00:51:16,200
performance and and now as an adult my

1309
00:51:13,680 –> 00:51:19,619
value is delivered on Perfection and

1310
00:51:16,200 –> 00:51:22,559
performance so I am primed for a burnout

1311
00:51:19,619 –> 00:51:25,559
I am just ripe for the picking but one

1312
00:51:22,559 –> 00:51:27,540
of the one gifts she gave me was when I

1313
00:51:25,559 –> 00:51:30,000
was heading into University people were

1314
00:51:27,540 –> 00:51:31,319
constantly going what do you want to be

1315
00:51:30,000 –> 00:51:33,359
what do you want to do what do you want

1316
00:51:31,319 –> 00:51:36,420
to be and she said to me

1317
00:51:33,359 –> 00:51:37,920
I don’t care what you take in your first

1318
00:51:36,420 –> 00:51:39,720
year of University you have to go to

1319
00:51:37,920 –> 00:51:41,700
university that’s the only prerequisite

1320
00:51:39,720 –> 00:51:43,380
doesn’t matter what you take you can

1321
00:51:41,700 –> 00:51:46,020
take any subjects you want you can fail

1322
00:51:43,380 –> 00:51:48,300
any subjects you want consider this a

1323
00:51:46,020 –> 00:51:51,480
work out your ship year

1324
00:51:48,300 –> 00:51:54,000
and I did and it was the best gift she

1325
00:51:51,480 –> 00:51:55,260
ever gave me granted I wasn’t allowed to

1326
00:51:54,000 –> 00:51:57,900
do creative subjects because those

1327
00:51:55,260 –> 00:52:00,780
weren’t real jobs you know it’s I find

1328
00:51:57,900 –> 00:52:02,640
that we I think you know look looking at

1329
00:52:00,780 –> 00:52:04,500
that I think we need to start changing

1330
00:52:02,640 –> 00:52:05,760
the narrative for our kids as well where

1331
00:52:04,500 –> 00:52:09,119
it’s like what do you want to be when

1332
00:52:05,760 –> 00:52:12,180
you grow up why are we there’s so many

1333
00:52:09,119 –> 00:52:15,180
job roles these days and I think the

1334
00:52:12,180 –> 00:52:16,579
impact of them seeing that we are

1335
00:52:15,180 –> 00:52:19,619
responsible with our time management

1336
00:52:16,579 –> 00:52:22,020
that we are responsible with our work

1337
00:52:19,619 –> 00:52:25,440
life balance that we are responsible

1338
00:52:22,020 –> 00:52:28,859
with sharing information and being

1339
00:52:25,440 –> 00:52:30,839
better leaders I think that’s that’s the

1340
00:52:28,859 –> 00:52:31,920
lessons we need to give rather than what

1341
00:52:30,839 –> 00:52:34,020
do you want to be when you grow up

1342
00:52:31,920 –> 00:52:35,520
absolutely and I think encouraging like

1343
00:52:34,020 –> 00:52:36,960
do what makes you happy right do what

1344
00:52:35,520 –> 00:52:38,339
makes your heart I know I don’t know we

1345
00:52:36,960 –> 00:52:40,440
talk about it you know and then it’s

1346
00:52:38,339 –> 00:52:42,359
like snowflakes and all that kind of

1347
00:52:40,440 –> 00:52:43,619
stuff but I literally like do the stuff

1348
00:52:42,359 –> 00:52:44,940
that makes you happy and I do think that

1349
00:52:43,619 –> 00:52:47,099
you know the fact that I reach such

1350
00:52:44,940 –> 00:52:48,680
critical burnout when my sons were 12

1351
00:52:47,099 –> 00:52:51,599
really

1352
00:52:48,680 –> 00:52:53,160
helped me to look at how I was teaching

1353
00:52:51,599 –> 00:52:54,780
my sons how I was educating my sons

1354
00:52:53,160 –> 00:52:56,339
because I’d gone back to work when they

1355
00:52:54,780 –> 00:52:58,079
were four months old

1356
00:52:56,339 –> 00:53:00,480
um you know having having them when they

1357
00:52:58,079 –> 00:53:01,619
were born and I went back with the

1358
00:53:00,480 –> 00:53:02,760
mentality you know I’ve gone back full

1359
00:53:01,619 –> 00:53:04,319
time when they were four months old with

1360
00:53:02,760 –> 00:53:06,359
the mentality of I’m going to show my

1361
00:53:04,319 –> 00:53:07,619
sons that you have to work hard for

1362
00:53:06,359 –> 00:53:09,180
whatever you want right if you want the

1363
00:53:07,619 –> 00:53:10,140
big house you’ve got a card for it if

1364
00:53:09,180 –> 00:53:12,119
you want the all-inclusive holidays

1365
00:53:10,140 –> 00:53:13,680
you’ve got to work hard for it and to

1366
00:53:12,119 –> 00:53:15,599
burn out when my sons were 12 actually

1367
00:53:13,680 –> 00:53:17,640
what I’d shown them was

1368
00:53:15,599 –> 00:53:19,859
working hard can you know can quite

1369
00:53:17,640 –> 00:53:21,260
literally kill you uh but go do it

1370
00:53:19,859 –> 00:53:23,900
anyway right

1371
00:53:21,260 –> 00:53:28,079
and you’ve prioritized

1372
00:53:23,900 –> 00:53:29,819
right I have said I am prepared to work

1373
00:53:28,079 –> 00:53:31,500
from my hospital bed rather than look

1374
00:53:29,819 –> 00:53:32,880
after myself because my work is more

1375
00:53:31,500 –> 00:53:35,339
important than being there for my family

1376
00:53:32,880 –> 00:53:37,559
that’s what I was that’s basically what

1377
00:53:35,339 –> 00:53:39,359
I what I was showing them so I think

1378
00:53:37,559 –> 00:53:41,700
from the from the guilt perspective and

1379
00:53:39,359 –> 00:53:43,200
the burnout perspective I think and you

1380
00:53:41,700 –> 00:53:45,059
and you touched on it Gina with what you

1381
00:53:43,200 –> 00:53:48,480
were saying like your struggle to be

1382
00:53:45,059 –> 00:53:50,099
present like for me scrap scrap balance

1383
00:53:48,480 –> 00:53:51,960
right you’re never going to find balance

1384
00:53:50,099 –> 00:53:54,960
and particularly if you are running your

1385
00:53:51,960 –> 00:53:57,420
own business when it is literally if I

1386
00:53:54,960 –> 00:53:59,760
do not get a client and I cannot put

1387
00:53:57,420 –> 00:54:02,280
food on the table this month that is a

1388
00:53:59,760 –> 00:54:04,260
huge like that’s a huge responsibility

1389
00:54:02,280 –> 00:54:06,359
right you haven’t got a big stress the

1390
00:54:04,260 –> 00:54:10,380
safe salary you haven’t got all of that

1391
00:54:06,359 –> 00:54:12,540
stuff but if you can be present

1392
00:54:10,380 –> 00:54:14,099
in whatever it is that you are doing so

1393
00:54:12,540 –> 00:54:15,480
if you are present when you are at work

1394
00:54:14,099 –> 00:54:18,660
and then you are present when you are

1395
00:54:15,480 –> 00:54:20,880
with your daughter being present I

1396
00:54:18,660 –> 00:54:24,059
believe is how you create the balance

1397
00:54:20,880 –> 00:54:26,460
right and I think as business owners

1398
00:54:24,059 –> 00:54:28,619
it’s that that we need to do right when

1399
00:54:26,460 –> 00:54:29,940
I’m at work I’m at work when I’m with my

1400
00:54:28,619 –> 00:54:31,680
daughter when I’m with my sons when I’m

1401
00:54:29,940 –> 00:54:34,440
with my partner whoever it is we may be

1402
00:54:31,680 –> 00:54:36,839
then I’m like I’m fully in it right you

1403
00:54:34,440 –> 00:54:40,200
have my undivided attention for however

1404
00:54:36,839 –> 00:54:43,260
long and set that as a boundary because

1405
00:54:40,200 –> 00:54:44,640
it can be so easy as a business owner to

1406
00:54:43,260 –> 00:54:45,900
you know you start having dinner with a

1407
00:54:44,640 –> 00:54:47,579
family you know you’ve got your phone

1408
00:54:45,900 –> 00:54:49,079
checking your phone checking your emails

1409
00:54:47,579 –> 00:54:51,300
doing and you know and everybody right

1410
00:54:49,079 –> 00:54:52,319
like hello I’m like I’m here and I

1411
00:54:51,300 –> 00:54:54,000
matter

1412
00:54:52,319 –> 00:54:55,800
like can’t we even have dinner without

1413
00:54:54,000 –> 00:54:57,660
you checking your emails or taking a

1414
00:54:55,800 –> 00:54:58,980
call or or doing whatever and then the

1415
00:54:57,660 –> 00:55:01,319
people around you start to feel

1416
00:54:58,980 –> 00:55:03,420
resentful and whilst you’re telling them

1417
00:55:01,319 –> 00:55:05,400
that I’m doing all of this to create a

1418
00:55:03,420 –> 00:55:06,780
brilliant life for you and for us they

1419
00:55:05,400 –> 00:55:08,579
don’t care they’re like I don’t I don’t

1420
00:55:06,780 –> 00:55:10,740
want the money you know I don’t want the

1421
00:55:08,579 –> 00:55:13,920
house I don’t want whatever I just want

1422
00:55:10,740 –> 00:55:15,780
you right I want you as my mum or my

1423
00:55:13,920 –> 00:55:17,180
wife or my daughter or whoever like I

1424
00:55:15,780 –> 00:55:19,859
don’t know who I won

1425
00:55:17,180 –> 00:55:21,300
but that’s the thing like they’re

1426
00:55:19,859 –> 00:55:22,800
looking at you and again I can remember

1427
00:55:21,300 –> 00:55:24,900
having the conversations with my sons

1428
00:55:22,800 –> 00:55:26,760
like if I slow down

1429
00:55:24,900 –> 00:55:28,319
you can’t get the Christmas presents you

1430
00:55:26,760 –> 00:55:29,640
can’t have the holiday we can’t stay in

1431
00:55:28,319 –> 00:55:31,200
this house we can’t have this because

1432
00:55:29,640 –> 00:55:33,119
they’re like mum we don’t care and my

1433
00:55:31,200 –> 00:55:35,460
sons literally did not care what my sons

1434
00:55:33,119 –> 00:55:37,079
wanted was me to set yeah like

1435
00:55:35,460 –> 00:55:38,760
everybody’s house right I just I know

1436
00:55:37,079 –> 00:55:41,400
this stuff this has been 10 years of my

1437
00:55:38,760 –> 00:55:44,040
life but like that’s so profound it’s

1438
00:55:41,400 –> 00:55:47,880
like we think we’re do it’s so [ __ ]

1439
00:55:44,040 –> 00:55:50,819
weird because just yesterday I okay

1440
00:55:47,880 –> 00:55:52,859
truth truth moment here I do have a

1441
00:55:50,819 –> 00:55:55,440
living Nanny because I’m a single mom by

1442
00:55:52,859 –> 00:55:59,359
choice anyway so the living Nanny she’s

1443
00:55:55,440 –> 00:56:03,599
great but yesterday at 4 30 I was like

1444
00:55:59,359 –> 00:56:05,700
the most exhausted I had ever been and I

1445
00:56:03,599 –> 00:56:07,559
was like I told the nanny I’m gonna I’m

1446
00:56:05,700 –> 00:56:10,800
gonna go take a nap but I’ll be up later

1447
00:56:07,559 –> 00:56:12,359
and then as I’m like laying in bed I’m

1448
00:56:10,800 –> 00:56:14,760
saying I don’t think I’m gonna be

1449
00:56:12,359 –> 00:56:16,800
getting up so I text her I said you know

1450
00:56:14,760 –> 00:56:18,839
I know you’re not doing anything tonight

1451
00:56:16,800 –> 00:56:21,059
I don’t think I’m getting up can you

1452
00:56:18,839 –> 00:56:22,559
like finish the night with my my

1453
00:56:21,059 –> 00:56:25,800
daughter and I said to her I was like

1454
00:56:22,559 –> 00:56:27,780
please tell Lucia that my mom loves her

1455
00:56:25,800 –> 00:56:29,780
and that everything I do I do for her

1456
00:56:27,780 –> 00:56:33,000
but now I’m like

1457
00:56:29,780 –> 00:56:36,660
maybe I need to not say that to her

1458
00:56:33,000 –> 00:56:38,940
maybe I need to just continue to be

1459
00:56:36,660 –> 00:56:40,380
present when I can and of course this

1460
00:56:38,940 –> 00:56:42,420
morning I woke up and I had my period

1461
00:56:40,380 –> 00:56:44,819
And I was like oh that’s why right

1462
00:56:42,420 –> 00:56:46,140
before coven my company was making so

1463
00:56:44,819 –> 00:56:48,180
much [ __ ] money like it was

1464
00:56:46,140 –> 00:56:51,900
ridiculous

1465
00:56:48,180 –> 00:56:54,359
um and then you know things changed with

1466
00:56:51,900 –> 00:56:56,220
kovid for the business I’m in because

1467
00:56:54,359 –> 00:57:00,240
it’s supply chain product development

1468
00:56:56,220 –> 00:57:02,819
we’re providing cpg items

1469
00:57:00,240 –> 00:57:05,640
um but there was a point that I probably

1470
00:57:02,819 –> 00:57:09,359
could have bought a Birkin I didn’t but

1471
00:57:05,640 –> 00:57:10,980
I could have like back in 2019 2018 like

1472
00:57:09,359 –> 00:57:14,040
when we were just [ __ ] printing money

1473
00:57:10,980 –> 00:57:14,760
like it was the coolest thing ever

1474
00:57:14,040 –> 00:57:16,819
um

1475
00:57:14,760 –> 00:57:20,819
but like yourself

1476
00:57:16,819 –> 00:57:22,920
I didn’t have a kid I wasn’t in a

1477
00:57:20,819 –> 00:57:25,079
relationship so I traveled a lot I had

1478
00:57:22,920 –> 00:57:27,839
all I spent all my money traveling like

1479
00:57:25,079 –> 00:57:30,839
these beautiful destinations beautiful

1480
00:57:27,839 –> 00:57:32,400
like Resorts all of this so when push

1481
00:57:30,839 –> 00:57:35,940
came to shove I was like should I have

1482
00:57:32,400 –> 00:57:37,800
no money like yeah no yeah like you put

1483
00:57:35,940 –> 00:57:41,339
it all into your house I put it all into

1484
00:57:37,800 –> 00:57:44,700
building a fam a beautiful wardrobe that

1485
00:57:41,339 –> 00:57:46,740
I have and will have of Timeless pieces

1486
00:57:44,700 –> 00:57:50,220
both shoes bags coats you know

1487
00:57:46,740 –> 00:57:51,960
everything and traveling but I should

1488
00:57:50,220 –> 00:57:54,420
have really been putting it into to

1489
00:57:51,960 –> 00:57:57,960
retirement and I give myself a lot of

1490
00:57:54,420 –> 00:58:00,720
guilt about that you know yeah and let

1491
00:57:57,960 –> 00:58:03,059
the little go again let the guilt go but

1492
00:58:00,720 –> 00:58:04,319
again I think when I look at it a lot of

1493
00:58:03,059 –> 00:58:05,700
I mean a lot of it wouldn’t fit me

1494
00:58:04,319 –> 00:58:07,559
anymore anyway because again my body

1495
00:58:05,700 –> 00:58:09,480
shut down and started to balloon but

1496
00:58:07,559 –> 00:58:11,819
like I got rid of a lot of my

1497
00:58:09,480 –> 00:58:14,640
ridiculously expensive shoes and bags

1498
00:58:11,819 –> 00:58:17,099
and everything and it took me a long

1499
00:58:14,640 –> 00:58:19,260
time to let them go

1500
00:58:17,099 –> 00:58:20,819
but at the end I think I realized I was

1501
00:58:19,260 –> 00:58:23,160
holding on to it

1502
00:58:20,819 –> 00:58:25,440
because that was a part of who I was and

1503
00:58:23,160 –> 00:58:27,420
I had worked damn hard to put every

1504
00:58:25,440 –> 00:58:28,500
single one of those pieces in my in my

1505
00:58:27,420 –> 00:58:29,880
wardrobe

1506
00:58:28,500 –> 00:58:30,960
but there was something that’s what I

1507
00:58:29,880 –> 00:58:33,119
was talking about in terms of the

1508
00:58:30,960 –> 00:58:34,980
healing process there was something

1509
00:58:33,119 –> 00:58:37,619
about like I had to let

1510
00:58:34,980 –> 00:58:40,260
bits of those go because that wasn’t who

1511
00:58:37,619 –> 00:58:42,119
I was anymore and I didn’t like who I

1512
00:58:40,260 –> 00:58:44,099
was at the point that I was buying them

1513
00:58:42,119 –> 00:58:46,380
all you know at the point the time that

1514
00:58:44,099 –> 00:58:50,420
I was buying a lot of that stuff and

1515
00:58:46,380 –> 00:58:53,160
earning my biggest internal salary ever

1516
00:58:50,420 –> 00:58:54,960
was the point that I was turning into

1517
00:58:53,160 –> 00:58:56,579
somebody that I didn’t recognize in this

1518
00:58:54,960 –> 00:58:59,460
toxic workplace and I think you know

1519
00:58:56,579 –> 00:59:01,440
thinking that I could polish it all with

1520
00:58:59,460 –> 00:59:03,240
a pair of Louboutins and you know a

1521
00:59:01,440 –> 00:59:05,220
Louis Vuitton

1522
00:59:03,240 –> 00:59:07,619
um you know I get I had one day I was

1523
00:59:05,220 –> 00:59:08,940
going to it sounds this sounds very Posh

1524
00:59:07,619 –> 00:59:10,740
now but I was going from our offices

1525
00:59:08,940 –> 00:59:12,660
I’ve been invited to like a round table

1526
00:59:10,740 –> 00:59:15,000
discussion at the houses of Parliament

1527
00:59:12,660 –> 00:59:16,859
like Westminster in London with this

1528
00:59:15,000 –> 00:59:19,020
group of MPS and I’m sat on the tube

1529
00:59:16,859 –> 00:59:21,359
going to the office one day and was just

1530
00:59:19,020 –> 00:59:23,880
like oh like what is wrong with me and

1531
00:59:21,359 –> 00:59:25,680
this was kind of as I had got like I’d

1532
00:59:23,880 –> 00:59:27,119
gone back to work after my burnout and

1533
00:59:25,680 –> 00:59:29,819
was in this kind of three-month

1534
00:59:27,119 –> 00:59:31,319
transition phase and sat on the tube and

1535
00:59:29,819 –> 00:59:32,940
I’m looking at all these people that

1536
00:59:31,319 –> 00:59:35,280
seemingly look really happy and I was

1537
00:59:32,940 –> 00:59:36,780
just like just so bloody miserable and I

1538
00:59:35,280 –> 00:59:39,180
don’t know what it was that made me do

1539
00:59:36,780 –> 00:59:43,200
it but I was literally started like

1540
00:59:39,180 –> 00:59:45,920
tallying up like how much I was wearing

1541
00:59:43,200 –> 00:59:45,920
that day

1542
00:59:49,099 –> 00:59:55,020
yeah this is gross yeah seriously I am

1543
00:59:52,319 –> 00:59:57,839
sat there wearing ten thousand pounds

1544
00:59:55,020 –> 01:00:00,660
worth of stuff and I’m as miserable as

1545
00:59:57,839 –> 01:00:02,640
hell and again that was another and I

1546
01:00:00,660 –> 01:00:04,859
remember going back to that moment as I

1547
01:00:02,640 –> 01:00:07,619
stood looking at my wardrobe with all of

1548
01:00:04,859 –> 01:00:10,079
these ridiculously expensive things and

1549
01:00:07,619 –> 01:00:12,660
just like it’s like I can let it all go

1550
01:00:10,079 –> 01:00:14,460
because I don’t recognize who I was in

1551
01:00:12,660 –> 01:00:17,099
any of that I replaced some of it right

1552
01:00:14,460 –> 01:00:18,540
I’ve still got some very beautiful items

1553
01:00:17,099 –> 01:00:19,920
that I’ve paid a lot of money for but

1554
01:00:18,540 –> 01:00:21,720
there’s a different feeling that I’ve

1555
01:00:19,920 –> 01:00:23,220
got into those purposes into those

1556
01:00:21,720 –> 01:00:26,280
purchases that makes me feel very

1557
01:00:23,220 –> 01:00:28,980
different about myself sure I mean I I

1558
01:00:26,280 –> 01:00:31,640
sold a lot of things just because

1559
01:00:28,980 –> 01:00:34,740
when I had the money I did a lot of

1560
01:00:31,640 –> 01:00:36,720
impulse purchases so then I feel like I

1561
01:00:34,740 –> 01:00:38,819
literally have never worn this it’s I

1562
01:00:36,720 –> 01:00:42,359
don’t even think it’s cute now like yeah

1563
01:00:38,819 –> 01:00:44,940
so uh yeah yeah so I have re like and I

1564
01:00:42,359 –> 01:00:48,480
resell it like on Poshmark or you know

1565
01:00:44,940 –> 01:00:52,260
one of those like depop but but

1566
01:00:48,480 –> 01:00:55,859
um I yeah like I I think about my mom

1567
01:00:52,260 –> 01:00:58,619
and she had she had such a wonderful

1568
01:00:55,859 –> 01:01:01,260
relationship with my dad but she is

1569
01:00:58,619 –> 01:01:03,059
literally wearing the same clothes that

1570
01:01:01,260 –> 01:01:04,799
she had from when I was growing up and

1571
01:01:03,059 –> 01:01:07,940
she’s totally okay with that she’s

1572
01:01:04,799 –> 01:01:11,160
totally happy same as my mom absolutely

1573
01:01:07,940 –> 01:01:13,079
why aren’t I like that like I need to

1574
01:01:11,160 –> 01:01:16,260
get have a little bit more of that and

1575
01:01:13,079 –> 01:01:19,200
like put my own spin on it my dad has

1576
01:01:16,260 –> 01:01:21,240
still got jumpers that are older than I

1577
01:01:19,200 –> 01:01:23,160
am yeah again I think you know we were

1578
01:01:21,240 –> 01:01:25,319
talking about different generations and

1579
01:01:23,160 –> 01:01:26,339
different messages and and what all

1580
01:01:25,319 –> 01:01:27,660
those things look like I think our

1581
01:01:26,339 –> 01:01:30,299
parents came from from a different

1582
01:01:27,660 –> 01:01:33,900
generation right you kind of made or may

1583
01:01:30,299 –> 01:01:35,520
do yeah and so some of us you know if

1584
01:01:33,900 –> 01:01:38,160
it’s still wearable why wouldn’t you

1585
01:01:35,520 –> 01:01:39,780
whereas I think we’ve come

1586
01:01:38,160 –> 01:01:41,579
you know again if we you know I think we

1587
01:01:39,780 –> 01:01:42,720
kind of similar ages from what we’re

1588
01:01:41,579 –> 01:01:45,900
saying in terms of we were talking about

1589
01:01:42,720 –> 01:01:49,559
but like we saw the introduction of CD

1590
01:01:45,900 –> 01:01:52,020
players and you know laptops right Zoom

1591
01:01:49,559 –> 01:01:53,339
right in in order to to record this

1592
01:01:52,020 –> 01:01:55,140
conversation right we’ve seen all of

1593
01:01:53,339 –> 01:01:57,299
that stuff and and everything has an end

1594
01:01:55,140 –> 01:01:59,280
date right we constantly renewing stuff

1595
01:01:57,299 –> 01:02:02,160
we’re constantly wanting bigger and

1596
01:01:59,280 –> 01:02:04,260
better and faster and more expensive and

1597
01:02:02,160 –> 01:02:05,760
more luxurious like that’s a large part

1598
01:02:04,260 –> 01:02:08,040
of what we’ve been brought up with so

1599
01:02:05,760 –> 01:02:10,260
why wouldn’t you want to keep buying or

1600
01:02:08,040 –> 01:02:12,660
buying buying because again

1601
01:02:10,260 –> 01:02:14,099
not only the the kind of way in which we

1602
01:02:12,660 –> 01:02:16,079
were brought up but what we were saying

1603
01:02:14,099 –> 01:02:18,839
earlier in terms of like success right

1604
01:02:16,079 –> 01:02:20,760
success looks like a really big

1605
01:02:18,839 –> 01:02:22,440
expensive handbag and a really big pair

1606
01:02:20,760 –> 01:02:24,359
of designer heels right that’s what we

1607
01:02:22,440 –> 01:02:26,339
were told success looks like but going

1608
01:02:24,359 –> 01:02:29,339
back to our conversation about like

1609
01:02:26,339 –> 01:02:32,280
what’s what was important to us like

1610
01:02:29,339 –> 01:02:34,559
shoes bags these expensive things I

1611
01:02:32,280 –> 01:02:37,680
don’t know if it’s an American thing or

1612
01:02:34,559 –> 01:02:40,020
a big city thing but to me it was like

1613
01:02:37,680 –> 01:02:42,599
you can have it all or if it was like

1614
01:02:40,020 –> 01:02:44,460
growing up in the 80s thing where they

1615
01:02:42,599 –> 01:02:46,859
were like you know women with their

1616
01:02:44,460 –> 01:02:50,400
power suits and holding a baby and like

1617
01:02:46,859 –> 01:02:53,099
having a big executive job like and I

1618
01:02:50,400 –> 01:02:55,920
still feel like I deeply believe that if

1619
01:02:53,099 –> 01:02:58,380
I work hard enough I could have it all I

1620
01:02:55,920 –> 01:02:59,940
still believe I could have it all but I

1621
01:02:58,380 –> 01:03:01,740
believe I can have it all without having

1622
01:02:59,940 –> 01:03:04,319
to work all the hours and put myself a

1623
01:03:01,740 –> 01:03:06,660
bird out to have it so my whole motto is

1624
01:03:04,319 –> 01:03:09,059
now I can have it all whilst working

1625
01:03:06,660 –> 01:03:10,920
four days a week right that’s my thing

1626
01:03:09,059 –> 01:03:13,440
so I that’s exactly where where I was

1627
01:03:10,920 –> 01:03:15,780
going so it’s like so it’s almost like

1628
01:03:13,440 –> 01:03:18,000
you know burnout

1629
01:03:15,780 –> 01:03:20,220
um working long hours all of those

1630
01:03:18,000 –> 01:03:23,760
things it’s almost like scalp badges

1631
01:03:20,220 –> 01:03:26,480
that you are yeah and yeah we’ve got all

1632
01:03:23,760 –> 01:03:30,559
the badges yeah been there done that

1633
01:03:26,480 –> 01:03:30,559
yeah yeah yeah yeah

1634
01:03:32,540 –> 01:03:36,839
don’t be a dick I think he’s the only

1635
01:03:34,740 –> 01:03:39,500
badge we need when it comes to toxicity

1636
01:03:36,839 –> 01:03:39,500
and burnout

1637
01:03:39,740 –> 01:03:44,819
I think here’s the funny thing though I

1638
01:03:42,780 –> 01:03:47,819
think probably all of us at some person

1639
01:03:44,819 –> 01:03:50,880
has been the toxic person in someone’s

1640
01:03:47,819 –> 01:03:53,700
story so it’s like we’re all gonna get

1641
01:03:50,880 –> 01:03:56,160
that I I’m a dick badge but then we’re

1642
01:03:53,700 –> 01:03:59,339
also gonna get the I’m don’t be a dick

1643
01:03:56,160 –> 01:04:03,000
bad right because like like like in the

1644
01:03:59,339 –> 01:04:05,700
CEO and the CEO’s story

1645
01:04:03,000 –> 01:04:09,299
um where we we met Nicola I’m sure I was

1646
01:04:05,700 –> 01:04:12,180
The Toxic horrible person and you you

1647
01:04:09,299 –> 01:04:15,000
were my predecessor yeah like I’m

1648
01:04:12,180 –> 01:04:18,180
positive that I was I was I was great

1649
01:04:15,000 –> 01:04:20,520
until I was apparently toxic I was I was

1650
01:04:18,180 –> 01:04:22,799
great I was the favorite until I was

1651
01:04:20,520 –> 01:04:24,960
toxic but I think they told that to a

1652
01:04:22,799 –> 01:04:27,420
lot of people I think they did that too

1653
01:04:24,960 –> 01:04:29,400
I think that was part of the toxicity is

1654
01:04:27,420 –> 01:04:31,260
that they told you to create a toxic

1655
01:04:29,400 –> 01:04:34,020
culture right so everybody’s going

1656
01:04:31,260 –> 01:04:36,000
against everybody yeah I’m I’m also

1657
01:04:34,020 –> 01:04:39,240
curious to know her Kelly

1658
01:04:36,000 –> 01:04:43,319
um what are some ways that you would

1659
01:04:39,240 –> 01:04:45,359
recommend to leaders organizations

1660
01:04:43,319 –> 01:04:47,040
Etc to help

1661
01:04:45,359 –> 01:04:48,540
I don’t want to say prevent burnout

1662
01:04:47,040 –> 01:04:50,400
because it’s an internal thing right

1663
01:04:48,540 –> 01:04:52,680
you’re going to you’re going to burn out

1664
01:04:50,400 –> 01:04:54,839
regardless of what your business puts in

1665
01:04:52,680 –> 01:04:57,480
place but I’m sure there are ways that

1666
01:04:54,839 –> 01:04:59,700
businesses can do some things to help

1667
01:04:57,480 –> 01:05:01,559
with burnout long term what what are

1668
01:04:59,700 –> 01:05:04,559
some of those recommendations that you

1669
01:05:01,559 –> 01:05:05,880
have up your sleeve yeah so I think I

1670
01:05:04,559 –> 01:05:07,500
think recognizing that everybody is

1671
01:05:05,880 –> 01:05:09,660
responsible for Burnout prevention right

1672
01:05:07,500 –> 01:05:11,280
us as the individuals and the workplaces

1673
01:05:09,660 –> 01:05:14,400
that we work in so I’m absolutely

1674
01:05:11,280 –> 01:05:16,380
convinced if I know like the deepest

1675
01:05:14,400 –> 01:05:17,760
part of my core I know

1676
01:05:16,380 –> 01:05:19,319
if I had been in a different

1677
01:05:17,760 –> 01:05:21,059
organization I would not have reached

1678
01:05:19,319 –> 01:05:23,099
burnout if I had been in an organization

1679
01:05:21,059 –> 01:05:25,559
that was not toxic I would not have

1680
01:05:23,099 –> 01:05:27,180
reached burnout so I think as it but as

1681
01:05:25,559 –> 01:05:28,859
an individual and as Gina was saying

1682
01:05:27,180 –> 01:05:31,200
right Gina you said what you’ve lasted

1683
01:05:28,859 –> 01:05:34,680
like four months and then left yeah so

1684
01:05:31,200 –> 01:05:36,180
if I had paid attention to to the

1685
01:05:34,680 –> 01:05:38,339
intuitive part of me that said get the

1686
01:05:36,180 –> 01:05:40,079
hell out of there on day one or even

1687
01:05:38,339 –> 01:05:41,460
what it was still telling me that at six

1688
01:05:40,079 –> 01:05:43,740
months right if I’d have listened to

1689
01:05:41,460 –> 01:05:45,420
that part of me I would not have got to

1690
01:05:43,740 –> 01:05:49,079
the point of burnout so I think

1691
01:05:45,420 –> 01:05:50,880
absolutely listen as individuals we need

1692
01:05:49,079 –> 01:05:53,280
to listen to our intuition because our

1693
01:05:50,880 –> 01:05:55,799
intuition knows get the hell out of

1694
01:05:53,280 –> 01:06:01,079
there right so we yeah it cannot ignore

1695
01:05:55,799 –> 01:06:03,900
that absolutely the non-tangible

1696
01:06:01,079 –> 01:06:06,839
but I think that’s why our mind is so

1697
01:06:03,900 –> 01:06:08,640
quick to say hey it’s just like for you

1698
01:06:06,839 –> 01:06:10,859
you said oh it’s just nerves it’s just

1699
01:06:08,640 –> 01:06:12,599
first aid Jitters yeah yeah yeah and

1700
01:06:10,859 –> 01:06:15,000
like I’m sure this is just like a

1701
01:06:12,599 –> 01:06:17,220
clerical error it’ll be absolutely but

1702
01:06:15,000 –> 01:06:20,160
whilst it’s and it’s still there six

1703
01:06:17,220 –> 01:06:22,380
months later right that’s my attention

1704
01:06:20,160 –> 01:06:24,539
to it right pay attention from from that

1705
01:06:22,380 –> 01:06:26,760
perspective so it’s individuals trust

1706
01:06:24,539 –> 01:06:28,500
your gut trust your intuition and act on

1707
01:06:26,760 –> 01:06:30,900
it because it will be giving you even if

1708
01:06:28,500 –> 01:06:33,539
you don’t know the how or the why pay

1709
01:06:30,900 –> 01:06:36,720
attention to it from an organization

1710
01:06:33,539 –> 01:06:39,180
perspective right toxic workplaces are

1711
01:06:36,720 –> 01:06:42,240
still the number one cause of burnout

1712
01:06:39,180 –> 01:06:44,339
and whilst toxic workplaces Remain the

1713
01:06:42,240 –> 01:06:45,780
number one cause of burnout we’re going

1714
01:06:44,339 –> 01:06:47,520
to continue to see those numbers fly

1715
01:06:45,780 –> 01:06:49,559
right and we’re seeing statistics that

1716
01:06:47,520 –> 01:06:52,079
are telling us at 77 of execs are

1717
01:06:49,559 –> 01:06:54,539
reaching burnout 98 of HR are reaching

1718
01:06:52,079 –> 01:06:56,940
burnout like 80 something percent I

1719
01:06:54,539 –> 01:06:59,819
think 84 of leaders worldwide are at the

1720
01:06:56,940 –> 01:07:01,140
point of better like this is awful I

1721
01:06:59,819 –> 01:07:02,280
think we’re seeing the rise of it we’re

1722
01:07:01,140 –> 01:07:03,960
definitely seeing the rise of it post

1723
01:07:02,280 –> 01:07:06,599
pandemic because I think lots of

1724
01:07:03,960 –> 01:07:09,420
organizations are still in panic fight

1725
01:07:06,599 –> 01:07:11,339
or flight mode and organizations need to

1726
01:07:09,420 –> 01:07:13,280
be creating leaders in organizations

1727
01:07:11,339 –> 01:07:14,900
need to be creating

1728
01:07:13,280 –> 01:07:17,579
psychologically

1729
01:07:14,900 –> 01:07:19,319
mentally physically emotionally safe

1730
01:07:17,579 –> 01:07:20,760
workplaces for their people and that

1731
01:07:19,319 –> 01:07:22,200
includes clear and open honest

1732
01:07:20,760 –> 01:07:25,500
communication

1733
01:07:22,200 –> 01:07:27,119
that includes being transparent that

1734
01:07:25,500 –> 01:07:29,039
includes ensuring that there are the

1735
01:07:27,119 –> 01:07:30,599
right people with the right skills and

1736
01:07:29,039 –> 01:07:33,599
the right knowledge the right number of

1737
01:07:30,599 –> 01:07:35,460
people to do the job so that it isn’t us

1738
01:07:33,599 –> 01:07:37,020
High performing overachievers that would

1739
01:07:35,460 –> 01:07:38,640
just take on all the slack and keep on

1740
01:07:37,020 –> 01:07:43,619
working and keep on working and keep on

1741
01:07:38,640 –> 01:07:45,119
working and leaders need to be really

1742
01:07:43,619 –> 01:07:48,000
clear on who they are at the core right

1743
01:07:45,119 –> 01:07:51,000
leaders need to be living in a valued

1744
01:07:48,000 –> 01:07:52,020
LED cool-led way instead of like we were

1745
01:07:51,000 –> 01:07:55,260
talking about with that big for

1746
01:07:52,020 –> 01:07:57,660
consultancy being led by fear not being

1747
01:07:55,260 –> 01:07:59,280
the people that want to speak up being

1748
01:07:57,660 –> 01:08:01,140
the people that will allow themselves to

1749
01:07:59,280 –> 01:08:03,780
be blinded by science

1750
01:08:01,140 –> 01:08:05,520
like leaders have to be questioning they

1751
01:08:03,780 –> 01:08:07,319
see moral unethical stuff that’s going

1752
01:08:05,520 –> 01:08:09,720
on in their businesses and they need to

1753
01:08:07,319 –> 01:08:11,940
not be living it so if we look at it

1754
01:08:09,720 –> 01:08:13,619
from two prongs as others individuals we

1755
01:08:11,940 –> 01:08:15,119
need to know who we are right this is

1756
01:08:13,619 –> 01:08:17,219
who I am at my core these are my core

1757
01:08:15,119 –> 01:08:19,640
values I’m not I’m not departing from

1758
01:08:17,219 –> 01:08:23,339
these at any cost we need to understand

1759
01:08:19,640 –> 01:08:25,679
like and listen to our intuition and

1760
01:08:23,339 –> 01:08:29,160
then leaders in organizations need to

1761
01:08:25,679 –> 01:08:30,540
stop creating and perpetuating toxic

1762
01:08:29,160 –> 01:08:33,239
workplaces they need to be

1763
01:08:30,540 –> 01:08:36,660
psychologically safe workplaces that

1764
01:08:33,239 –> 01:08:38,759
allow people to be themselves to not

1765
01:08:36,660 –> 01:08:41,339
have to change to fit into that toxic

1766
01:08:38,759 –> 01:08:43,920
environment and that where there is safe

1767
01:08:41,339 –> 01:08:45,660
enough to say I’m struggling and I need

1768
01:08:43,920 –> 01:08:48,120
some help and so I think really really

1769
01:08:45,660 –> 01:08:50,400
pay attention to those signs and put

1770
01:08:48,120 –> 01:08:53,640
yourself first like your job I know this

1771
01:08:50,400 –> 01:08:56,339
kind of gets everywhere and really does

1772
01:08:53,640 –> 01:08:59,940
sound like a bit of a cliche but your

1773
01:08:56,339 –> 01:09:02,699
job will replace you tomorrow if you

1774
01:08:59,940 –> 01:09:04,380
have to leave because you are at the

1775
01:09:02,699 –> 01:09:06,060
point of burnout right they will just

1776
01:09:04,380 –> 01:09:08,400
replace you that you know they can they

1777
01:09:06,060 –> 01:09:09,779
will drop you if you resign if they have

1778
01:09:08,400 –> 01:09:12,060
to get rid of you whatever they are

1779
01:09:09,779 –> 01:09:13,859
going to drop you your family your

1780
01:09:12,060 –> 01:09:16,020
friends the people that you matter to

1781
01:09:13,859 –> 01:09:18,120
cannot replace you right there is not

1782
01:09:16,020 –> 01:09:20,460
another Kelly that’s going to step in

1783
01:09:18,120 –> 01:09:22,259
and be the mum to my sons but there was

1784
01:09:20,460 –> 01:09:24,000
another HR director that stepped into

1785
01:09:22,259 –> 01:09:26,940
those shoes and I think we’ve just gotta

1786
01:09:24,000 –> 01:09:30,000
and then recognize that we matter yeah

1787
01:09:26,940 –> 01:09:34,560
and yes and then die and then literally

1788
01:09:30,000 –> 01:09:36,660
dropped dead died so like if this like

1789
01:09:34,560 –> 01:09:38,100
this like I mean I don’t bang all about

1790
01:09:36,660 –> 01:09:39,600
this stuff because like it’s nice like

1791
01:09:38,100 –> 01:09:42,120
burnout and burn out prevention like

1792
01:09:39,600 –> 01:09:43,920
it’s not a sexy subject I’m not telling

1793
01:09:42,120 –> 01:09:46,679
people how to become millionaires or how

1794
01:09:43,920 –> 01:09:48,540
to live beautiful happy lives like

1795
01:09:46,679 –> 01:09:50,699
burnout prevention stuff like really

1796
01:09:48,540 –> 01:09:52,620
dull and boring like oh God here we go

1797
01:09:50,699 –> 01:09:53,880
again like this stuff matters it is

1798
01:09:52,620 –> 01:09:56,280
literally killing people it’s making

1799
01:09:53,880 –> 01:09:58,440
people really ill it’s causing huge

1800
01:09:56,280 –> 01:10:02,400
issues and we have to realize that as

1801
01:09:58,440 –> 01:10:05,040
individuals we are worth more more than

1802
01:10:02,400 –> 01:10:07,560
chronic stress that is literally

1803
01:10:05,040 –> 01:10:09,900
crippling us well it has been such an

1804
01:10:07,560 –> 01:10:12,660
amazing chat I hope thank you for having

1805
01:10:09,900 –> 01:10:15,179
me thank you ladies have an amazing day

1806
01:10:12,660 –> 01:10:17,940
so much Kelly it was so nice to meet you

1807
01:10:15,179 –> 01:10:20,280
and chat take care you have another good

1808
01:10:17,940 –> 01:10:22,739
one bye bye bye

1809
01:10:20,280 –> 01:10:24,480
thank you for joining us today if you

1810
01:10:22,739 –> 01:10:27,000
would like to share your story we would

1811
01:10:24,480 –> 01:10:28,679
love to hear from you also leaving a

1812
01:10:27,000 –> 01:10:30,360
review helps us create more content

1813
01:10:28,679 –> 01:10:32,640
because it shows us there’s an interest

1814
01:10:30,360 –> 01:10:34,140
in this topic for those of our listeners

1815
01:10:32,640 –> 01:10:36,540
who do better with reading we have

1816
01:10:34,140 –> 01:10:40,699
closed caption available on YouTube see

1817
01:10:36,540 –> 01:10:40,699
you next week same time and same place