S1E10: Mental Burnout – When is the work load too much? We speak to Gareth Beck from Air NZ

Meet Gareth, the man with a mission to spread positivity in the workplace! Originally from the UK, he’s now based in New Zealand, studying for his postgraduate diploma in workplace health and safety at Victoria University of Wellington. But that’s not all – Gareth is also the proud winner of the Emerging Practitioner award at the New Zealand Health and Safety Awards in 2020.

As one of the founders of the Emerging Safety Leaders group, Gareth is a true champion of supporting those who are just starting out in the health and safety industry. He’s currently putting his expertise to use as the Wellbeing Business Partner at Air New Zealand. What’s driving Gareth’s passion for workplace wellbeing? It all started with seeing his loved ones struggle with mental health. He firmly believes that workplaces can and should play a role in helping their staff thrive, and he’s making it his mission to spread this message far and wide.

Gareth has been working in the wellbeing space for the past few years, with a focus on mental health in the workplace. He’s even developed global wellbeing strategies and led multinational teams around wellbeing. By using a risk management approach, Gareth has successfully reduced mental health challenges for staff. With his infectious enthusiasm and drive to make a positive impact, it’s clear that Gareth is a force to be reckoned with in the world of workplace wellbeing.

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Oh yeah.Speaker 2: 53:32

All these different shirts. No, that was the other Brian. That was T-shirt Brian Oh.Speaker 1: 53:37

T-shirt Brian. Oh my God, yeah, brian with the insurgents was very funny.Speaker 2: 53:41

Yeah, um, we had the lady with four million jobs. Do you remember that one Mm? hmm, i know Where she had like what was it Like? 47.Speaker 1: 53:54

Like her first. Like her first line out of the box was like I’ve had 46 jobs in the past 30 years and we’re like what.Speaker 2: 54:05

We’ve got Amy, who talks to us about toxic positivity, which is pretty cool, and then we had Stu, who was our most recent recording, yeah, talking about leadership, which I’m pretty bloody excited about.Speaker 1: 54:20

And now so we’ll be doing some more interviews, but also sprinkling in some of the research episodes.Speaker 2: 54:25

Yeah, and then we’ll be doing some research episodes is going to like is our next kind of step right? That’s our evolution.Speaker 1: 54:33

And we’ll see what happens. We’ll see what you guys like more And if you have any comments, thoughts, reactions, just reach out to us.Speaker 2: 54:39

Yeah, We really appreciate everybody’s comments. Yeah, We’ve had. I just, I just get so excited when someone comments, So if you could comment like like subscribe, share follow all those good things. Come join us on LinkedIn. Come join us on.Speaker 3: 54:55

Instagram, yeah, yeah Find us a good place.Speaker 4: 54:57

We’d be happy to have you.Speaker 2: 54:59

And we’ll see you in season two. Couple weeks, yeah, yeah, a couple weeks. Thank you for joining us today. If you would like to share your story, we would love to hear from you.Speaker 1: 55:10

Also, leaving a review helps us create more content because it shows us there’s an interest in this topic.Speaker 2: 55:16

For those of our listeners who do better with reading, we have closed caption available on YouTube.Speaker 1: 55:20

See you next week, same time and same place.

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Speaker 2 [00:01:29] In this week’s episode anyway. Hi, Gareth. You’re Gina. Gareth. Gareth. Gina is my co-host. Gina, do you want to tell us maybe where you’re from? Because I feel like that’s an important piece of this puzzle.

Speaker 1 [00:01:43] Is it? I’m, as you might guess, I am from the United States by my accent. Sure.

Speaker 3 [00:01:50] Okay.

Speaker 1 [00:01:51] I know. It’s very shocking. And yeah, so that’s that’s what we need to know about where I’m from.

Speaker 2 [00:01:59] It’s just.

Speaker 3 [00:02:00] The United States is no particular state.

Speaker 1 [00:02:02] I’m from. No, I mean, I’m from Manhattan, New York, but.

Speaker 2 [00:02:05] Currently based in Florida.

GIna [00:02:08] I try to leave that part out.

Nicola [00:02:10] And you know what’s really funny is she’s based in a town called Wellington.

GIna [00:02:14] Oh, yeah. The big thing very like equestrian. I had no idea when I was moving here from Manhattan, like what I was getting myself into. But it’s like super rich, like Bruce Springsteen, Bon Jovi, like, all these people have their their second homes down here with all their wealth or maybe their fourth or fifth homes. Like, yeah, that’s been all their horses so that their daughters can do dressage and it’s very fancy.

Gareth [00:02:43] Oh, golly, that sounds lovely.

Nicola [00:02:45] And you know, and you know, I’m in Wellington, Wellington, like the real Wellington, the capital city Wellington. And you’re up in Auckland now. I know.

Gareth [00:02:54] That. Auckland.

Nicola [00:02:55] Now, how is Auckland doing?

Gareth [00:03:00] Yeah, not, not bad. I think at the moment it’s kind of the shift from it went from Auckland to Hawke’s Bay Napier, which is kind of our east coast, China um, east coast of our North island. And they got hit really, really hard by the Cyclone Gabrielle that that came through. I think we prepared for the worst at Auckland because of what happened like two weeks prior and then. Yeah. Napier and I really got hit hard with floods and just total devastation in there. So I know the fun out the family and New Zealand. I’ve been doing a lot of work with flights and cargo and things like that down there, so there’s been a big response from from our team, which, you know, the last week has just been a bit chaotic at New Zealand to try and help with that. So yeah, but Auckland I think is is doing good today. It’s blue sky day, so I’m enjoying those days. I’ve really tried to survive since then. It’s not really rained too much so I’ve been trying to get out in the morning and just see the sunrise and just really appreciate that. Maybe sounds a bit like hippie, but just I’ve just been trying to, you know, really embrace that in the mornings and not just sit and scroll on my phone. It’s just kind of been my go to, um, you know, appreciate the summer.

Nicola [00:04:21] Doomscrolling I.

Gareth [00:04:23] Kind of yeah.

GIna [00:04:24] Well, I start my day 6:00 in the morning by going for like a two mile walk while listening to true crime podcasts.

Gareth [00:04:34] I mean, that that’s also cool. It’s it’s not my type.

GIna [00:04:39] In the sun where I get to see the sunrise as well. But then I’m also learning about really sick and twisted individuals who are murdering people. It’s my jam.

Gareth [00:04:50] How does that become popular? I don’t I’m just I’m just intrigued. Is it just people love that.

Nicola [00:04:55] Drama, you know, alter.

Gareth [00:04:56] Ego of potentially like, oh, that could happen. I don’t.

GIna [00:04:59] Know. I don’t know. I don’t know why. I’ve always been into it. Like even when I was like a lot younger in my teens and stuff.

Nicola [00:05:07] All right. So we’ve got Gareth is a rising leader in the field of health and safety leadership. He is known for his passion and dedication to ensuring safe work environments and promoting a strong safety culture. Gareth has already made significant impact in the industry through his innovative approaches and solutions. Gareth background includes occupational health and safety as well as a number of other certifications in related fields. He’s worked in a variety of roles in health and safety field, including safety coordinator, consultant and now a business partner. Gareth is highly motivated to make a positive difference in the lives of workers and their families, recognizing the importance of providing a safe and healthy workplace, He’s a strong advocate for the development of effective safety policies, training programs and communication strategies and has demonstrated leadership in implementing these initiatives in various organizations. He is an active member of the safety community and also volunteers his expertise to various people and places. He is dynamic and an inspiring leader who is poised to continue making a significant impact in the field of health and safety for years to come.

Gareth [00:06:19] Wow. I can see why you said I could use that as a condition.

GIna [00:06:25] You could be accurate.

Gareth [00:06:27] But it’s I think I don’t know if it’s like a British thing or a Kiwi thing. It’s hard to hear positive things about, you know, I don’t know. It’s just one of those things where you like God, so that’s lovely. I think that’s fantastic. Thank you so much.

Nicola [00:06:41] Well, welcome to the podcast. Yeah.

Gareth [00:06:43] Thank you. Hi. Hi everybody. I, Gina. Nicola. Hello, Hilda. As we say in New Zealand.

GIna [00:06:50] So can you tell us in now, in your own words, like what you’re doing right now, what your career is looking like? Anything like this?

Gareth [00:07:00] Yeah. So I am in the health and safety world and well-being world, I guess I should say. So I’ve been in the health and safety arena for since 2017 and definitely over the last couple of years found myself doing more in the mental health wellbeing space. So when the opportunity came to speak to you about, you know, kind of toxic workplaces, I was kind of like, Oh, this would be really cool to really get down and dirty. It sounds weird, but yeah, just talk about it.

Nicola [00:07:32] She said.

Gareth [00:07:33] Yeah, exactly. I picked on the office. Yes, come on. So, I mean, you guys are up there and you know everything, but you’ve just gone up. So that’s. That’s awesome. It’s good to have a fellow office fans, and I’m hoping we just don’t say that’s what she said all the way through this.

GIna [00:07:52] No, we.

Nicola [00:07:52] Want maybe 50%.

Gareth [00:07:55] Okay. Okay. So. Well, yeah. So I found ourselves doing a little bit more in the mental health and wellbeing space. And it’s something really interesting because I think, you know, it’s a huge part of health and safety that’s very much whispered about in the sense that, you know, we talk about the we’re shouting lot about safety, but we kind of whisper the health partners specially whispering that sort of psychosocial risks, that risk hazards, that impact your your mental health. So the opportunity last year came to move to New Zealand and more the wellbeing business partner role. And obviously there’s a whole broad spectrum of wellbeing. But my focus at the airline is to really start to tackle those risks and it’s only growing that area of health and safety. So I sort of took that opportunity and a chance to go, Well, I’m one of those people who likes to take a chance and just see where it goes and if you know it’s good, cool. If it doesn’t work out, there’ll be another opportunity, I’m sure. Sure about it. So I’m always, always taking a risk, I guess you could say in that respect, and always looking for opportunities and where you know, I can grow. So that’s that’s where I want to grow into and learn more. And I’m, I’m kind of studying a little bit at the moment in health and Safety at the University of Wellington.

GIna [00:09:16] So can you give me like a concrete example of what your work you mentioned you’re working for an airline in the like wellbeing area. Can you give me a concrete example of something that might come across your desk? Because I don’t know if we have anything like that here in the States. Likely we don’t because we kind of are backwards in a lot of places.

Gareth [00:09:38] Yeah. So at the moment the airline is probably most airlines are doing around the world at the moment is recruiting, recruiting, recruiting. So much. So I do a lot of work with training and giving people tools and and tips on how to manage things when it comes to the mental wellbeing, the physical wellbeing, sleep fatigue, that sort of thing. So that’s kind of the training I look towards a typical day. Also, I speak to a lot of people around the business if they’re struggling or want a bit of a kind of a wellbeing check in, I guess we call it. So we sort of talk to people and they’re like, Hey, this is kind of going on. Is this right? This is how I should be feeling. What are the most poor options that we’ve got? And we’ve got a heap of spot options at the airline that we can point them towards. And look ranges from anybody dealing with bags through to pilots, cabin crew. Like that’s the thing. And New Zealand where where I’m working now is it’s so broad from that it’s almost like you’ve got eight companies in one kind of thing and there’s all different sort of backgrounds, cultural backgrounds that you’ve got to kind of consider and take into account. So it’s some yeah, it’s not it’s not a one size fits all tick box kind of thing. So it’s there’s always those curveballs that come across your desk that you just like, Well, okay, I’m probably not the best person for this. So it’s about then trying to find that person to then help. I feel like a bit of a concierge in the sense that people come to you and you’re like, okay, you need to go to that or This is a sport option for you. Tell me how that goes for you kind of thing. That makes.

GIna [00:11:16] Sense. So it’s almost I mean, I think what you’re describing a little bit would be similar to like a good h.r. Department in america, which i haven’t met one yet, but our board of back when i do.

Gareth [00:11:30] Let me know. No, i think we overlap a lot, and that’s kind of i’ve actually got a big sort of gathering of wellbeing people in new zealand next week where we sort of said that we need to come together and actually sort of see where we fit into New Zealand and to workplace actually have some sort of cohort where we. Come together and just ask questions, because usually just one, maybe two of you, if you if you’re lucky in a workplace, but you have to cross over into the diversity equity, inclusion space. You hate your space injury management space like so many. The Venn diagram is huge kind of thing. And then your safety team as well. So it’s it links into so many things that you have to kind of be across a lot and understand a lot of processes as well. My health and safety background put me in good stead for that. But the space I need to do some work in and around that to understand more about the law.

GIna [00:12:24] So you mentioned burnout. Do you want to talk a little bit about.

Nicola [00:12:29] How you kind of came to understanding burnout intimately?

Gareth [00:12:35] Yeah, I commented it in the before thing. I don’t know what this will be. So people like, I don’t know.

GIna [00:12:41] Nobody knows. Nobody. No one a.

Gareth [00:12:44] Psychic.

GIna [00:12:45] Gina Yeah, exactly.

Gareth [00:12:49] So yeah, I my previous workplace, obviously everybody knows what went down in, in 2020 and, and COVID kind of hit and I think for me.

GIna [00:13:00] Kind of just kind of hit it kind of sort of happened.

Nicola [00:13:03] Just just a little bit of COVID. Yeah.

Gareth [00:13:06] Oh, right. Oh, I’m with you now. Yeah, It just looks like COVID.

GIna [00:13:09] Just kinda.

Nicola [00:13:10] And much of COVID.

Gareth [00:13:11] Like I can attest to this. It kind of it didn’t happen for like years. We were kind of looking at the outside going, ooh, I mean, look at American going good. That’s not the way to deal with that. And the UK where I’m from is like, Oh, let’s, let’s deal with that. But we’re okay over here and point the finger at anybody who brings COVID in and blame them for bringing down New Zealand and its COVID response. But um, yeah, so COVID happened and been in health and safety. It’s kind of like the finger looks towards you and points towards you say, Right, help us out. We need to get policies, procedures, What do we do? Um, what sort of hand sanitizer, what do we need to we need cleaners on the stair banisters, like the old times, clean banisters and clean buttons. And I mean, I had somebody asked me that it was like, Hey, we need more cleaning of the banisters. I’m like, Well, as soon as somebody touches that, it’s, it’s clean again. Yeah. So there was requests like this that were coming in in like February, March time. And then obviously we went into March and over in New Zealand we had a lockdown for all always four weeks like there was six, but there was like there’s the four weeks, which was like level four, which was like, do not you do.

Nicola [00:14:20] Not leave your.

Gareth [00:14:21] Home. Yeah. And then third week was like, yeah, we can give you some takeaways. And then, um, yeah. And so through that process it was a lot of long hours. I’d also decided in 2020 that I want to start studying as well. Good idea. So I was doing.

GIna [00:14:34] I would say that’s, that sounds like a lot on your plate minus takeaway because you couldn’t have one.

Gareth [00:14:41] Exactly. So we have to enhance take it. It was just not as nice in April, like I was working stupid hours and not getting sleep. It was like working till late at night, whether it was studying, whether it was work and getting up early, kind of doomscrolling looking at the negative press looking because we had to collect the data, we had to go, right, what’s happening in New Zealand, what’s happening around the world, because we were based across New Zealand, Australia and Asia. So we had kind of had to collect this data, which was very negative looking and it was just so negative. And as I say, being from the UK moving to New Zealand, there was always that thing of I’ve got that freedom to move around. I can come and go as I pleased and then all of a sudden I’m like, What am I going to see my family again? What? How are we now having to sort of even make shifts to move away from New Zealand? But at the same time, why would I want to go to the UK, which is massively got huge COVID numbers and, you know, threatened myself and my wife’s health and potential baby’s health. Right? So there was there was all these things kind of getting through.

GIna [00:15:44] To come to the United States. We had great numbers.

Gareth [00:15:46] I heard I heard you were doing great. I was swallowing a bleach and all that sort of stuff that was recommended.

Nicola [00:15:55] You know what? I feel like that was a joke. I feel like we I feel like we didn’t follow through. We should have made, like, bleach tablets. I feel like those would have sold really well.

GIna [00:16:05] Like I won. When that whole thing happened, I was like, surely somebody made a meme and it just went viral. And then can you imagine when I was like, Oh my goodness, the president actually said that and people are actually going to do this because.

Nicola [00:16:27] Yeah, hold on, hold on. I’m picking second here for let me interject for a hot minute. So this is not a Trump debate. Surely not. It will never be. But being South African, we’ve had some curious presidents ourselves and we had we had one presidents before, a couple of presidents before the current presidents here had. Adult relations with a sex worker who happened to have been HIV positive. And he told the nation, the nation that it’s okay. He had a shower afterwards. He’s fine.

GIna [00:17:07] I love this. I love this. That is so help and safety, you know. Right. We digress. Okay. So Kobe giggling back for you. You’re like working crazy hours. Not sure when you’re going to see your family.

Gareth [00:17:22] I think there’s that. I think there’s just the isolation as well. And, you know, just the the control of things like focusing on what you can and can’t control. I think, you know, I was focused on trying to focus on the stuff I couldn’t control. I think that was just like that didn’t help at all. As well as trying to focus on what I could control, you know, the work environment, you just all of a sudden been trying to work from home. I mean, I was quite fortunate. I sort of invested in a desk, so I wasn’t working at the on the kitchen side and I had a screen. But, you know, there’s people who in our place were working on my own and boards and like kitchen surfaces for months on end. And then after the sort of three or four months, I come to me and go, Can I get some help with stuff? Because I’m working on the kitchen side on this really high stool and the back’s really hurt. And I’m like, How have you been working? So, so there’s all these things kind of, I think, factors. Um, I was just going and going and going and going and going, and I kind of reached a point where I was writing an email one day and I was like, I’ve written a paragraph, I looked at the time and I was like, This takes me 2 hours to get to this point. And I’ve not I’ve not done this email. What is going on? Like, it was taken me way too long and I just didn’t feel right. And I was like, and the kind of the bloke thing again, I just I’ll just keep going kind of thing. And then it was only this was after about six, seven, eight weeks, so we could then go back into office. I booked my place in the office for the next day. I was like, Oh, I just maybe I need some time. The office around people got out to two people, and one of our kind of peer supporters are all that’s helpful status. Who was in there. So he goes, I was like, Oh, he’s just like, You don’t seem yourself. I was like, Yeah, I know. And so we can have a bit of a chat. She was like, Oh, and I was thinking about reaching out to somebody, right? You know, just going to see a counselor, somebody similar. And she’s kind of pushed me to it. And I was like, Yeah, you know, actually you’re right. I need to do that. It’s kind of picked up the phone, went to see a counselor, and they were like, You are on your way, if not already burnt out. You need to ease back right now. But also, I guess the other thing that I was trying to do in that time, um, it’s kind of like this I was doing I’m linked in lives. I was just like, I just thought, what a great idea to do some linked in lives, you know, and just get to know people and hear call like, safety stories, just like get to know people, you know, some of the things that they’ve gone through. Because like I kind of said in the Prelude before this, I loved networking with people. So and that gives me great energy. So that was taken away because of COVID. But yeah, I was kind of doing that and that was going quite well. And but at the same time, I was just I just felt myself getting worse and worse. So yeah, just when it got to that, I just went right. Everything cool? My manager.

GIna [00:20:14] Can I have a question? Go from when you said you weren’t feeling yourself. Can you describe how you were feeling? Like, were you some of the tired all the time? Yeah. Like what symptoms were you experiencing?

Gareth [00:20:28] I was just very tired and everything. Like, as I said, an email, it would take so much cognitive load to just even try and write an email. To try and focus. I couldn’t focus properly on things that well, my mind was just obviously in a state of stress that it couldn’t really focus on one thing or another. Um, I was just very tired and things just felt as slow. I guess that’s how I kind of describe it and become.

GIna [00:21:01] Irritable at all.

Gareth [00:21:02] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I.

GIna [00:21:05] I’m like, super stressed. Like I be the first one to throw a punch verbally or physically, Okay?

Gareth [00:21:12] I mean, I wouldn’t do that. I have tiny little hands. Oh.

Nicola [00:21:19] Can I actually, you know, once I got stressed out during lockdown and I broke my hand in the womb because I threw an adult tantrum.

Gareth [00:21:28] Or I did one of those. I think I did one of those the other day at the park because my phone did work. And I want to take picture of my son. And I just like it was one of the soft, you know, the soft ground at park. Sometimes it’s like bouncy.

Nicola [00:21:40] It’s not like, oh, yeah, all that weird, like plasticky, weird, bouncy. It’s so weird, but so great.

Gareth [00:21:46] Yeah. And I was like, phone. You know why? I could just. Like a guy that was just.

GIna [00:21:51] People did a break.

Gareth [00:21:53] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because I want I move my phone out. Just use my fist to punch to the ground.

Nicola [00:22:00] Um, yeah. Hold on. I just want to caveat this with. I’m not a crazy person. I actually had an adult, you know, adult meltdown because I was stressed from work. I was stressed from lockdown. And then my ex-partner, who has no sense of smell, eats onions like apples or at what they.

GIna [00:22:24] Throw an adult tantrum. Okay.

Nicola [00:22:27] What? No, no, no. Like just one a caveat that I’m not totally crazy and I had to explain the situation to the ER doctor as well. So what happened was they ate this onion like an apple, like. And I’m like, Whoop, whoop. And then there’s.

GIna [00:22:40] Great for my bikini diet, though, because I’m disgusted.

Nicola [00:22:44] Carrion So eats this fucking onion like an apple and then insists on, like, talking at me. So my eyes were, like, watering. And I’m like, Look. And then I was like, Please, can you just stop talking, please? For the love of Sweet Jesus.

GIna [00:22:58] You didn’t break up with him right then.

Gareth [00:23:00] I’m going to say the morning breath would have just been.

Nicola [00:23:02] No, not even in the morning. Just like right now, we’ve eaten fresh apple like an like an onion. Like an apple. Literally, like sitting there, like.

Gareth [00:23:10] Just the burger.

Nicola [00:23:11] So we go. So we go to bed and in the room, like.

GIna [00:23:14] And then he’s like, breathing.

Nicola [00:23:16] And I’m like, Can you just stop breathing? Like, I’m 2 minutes away from it.

GIna [00:23:21] Onion. Onion. Boy, I got to go die.

Nicola [00:23:25] I was, like, livid. I was so I was just like, just stop talking. Like, you don’t understand the smell that is coming from you. It’s coming out of your skin, like.

Gareth [00:23:34] Say, the ripping.

Nicola [00:23:36] Thing. So I got up and I only slam as slammed the door. But I pulled the door. So when it slammed it slammed through the middle of my hand and broke the little bones in my arm. So I stood upstairs for a second after my meltdown and my hand swelled up like a balloon. And I was like, What?

Gareth [00:23:55] Yeah. I’m not going to be able to explain anything to a doctor or nurse or how I’m going to explain how I came to this.

GIna [00:24:01] Did you did you actually tell them about The Onion?

Nicola [00:24:04] Yes. I was like, I’m so I don’t know which like the.

GIna [00:24:07] Best because actually, like, if if me hearing this story for the first time, I’m like, I get that. I get that I probably owe my.

Nicola [00:24:17] Eyes watering but.

Gareth [00:24:19] That’s totally true Crime podcast coming back in that if I just injected this onion with this chemical reaction.

GIna [00:24:28] I’ll kill people in crazy fucking ways. I would you know, I wouldn’t put it past someone to have injected food.

Nicola [00:24:35] Okay. We totally we totally went down a new rabbit hole.

Gareth [00:24:38] I love this guy. Right?

GIna [00:24:39] You’re fucking irritable. I have, like, adult tender temper tantrums.

Nicola [00:24:44] Like teen dreams. Yeah.

GIna [00:24:46] Yeah, tantrums. I had a tantrum yesterday because I came down. My daughter’s not feeling well. She’s kind of sick, and my partner was watching her, and I came down from upstairs, and there’s all these coins, like hundred pennies, just like on my marble floor. And there’s my partner just sitting on the couch, just watching TV. And I’m like, Oh, okay, let me pick up 100 pennies. But then he was doing something else and he knocked over the ball that I had 100 pennies in. And I was like, I’m not cleaning that up. So if he had seen it, I mean, anyway.

Gareth [00:25:26] Anyway, I could see why that would be irritable, but at the same time fun when he does that. Yeah. So, So anyway, I don’t know where we got to.

Nicola [00:25:34] You were irritable, you’re grumpy as fuck. You’re hating your dad. You’re about, you’re like 2 minutes away from falling off a cliff. And they announce, Yeah.

GIna [00:25:42] And so then you talk to the counselor. Yeah, you get okay. So I thought.

Gareth [00:25:47] Well, then they just recommended a few sort of. What’s the words? I can’t even think of the words now. Yeah. Tools. Thank you. Tools for my tool belt, which I didn’t really have. Because you know what? If you think about well-being, it’s. It’s kind of your resources and your challenges. And if you have enough resources to manage the challenges, then you kind of be alright. Okay. But actually it covered huge challenges way down. So you needed a lot of resources to manage that. So they gave me a few resources, tools to help with that. One of the things that always sticks with me is obviously is that Doomscrolling is the negativities. I was focusing on all the wrong things. And what do you stress? You know, you naturally focus more on the negative aspects, right? We’re naturally we’re naturally pessimistic animals. It’s keeping us safe. You know, our ancestors were alive today because they were like, we’re going to stay in the cave because it’s a bit safer than going with that psychotic tiger. So I’m not too pessimistic. But when we’re stressed, we become more pessimistic. So actually focusing on good stuff is what I was sort of given as a way to kind of combat that obviously taking time off. So I, I got out of that, literally called my manager straight away. I said, look, I need this boat to my lecturer at uni was I need this, just give me a week before I will give me a few extra weeks before I submit that assignment. And so it was a few things like that that I kind of did, and that really helped. I think the next day I pretty much went to the beach with the dog and just there was literally me and the dog and there was this huge expanse of a beach down at Muriwai Beach, which is kind of West Auckland. And it was it was like drizzling a little bit and it was just glorious. I always remember that day because it was just so like, there’s nothing in my life. It’s just me and the dog and that. So it is very beautiful that I see this diary. So so every every day I wrote down, you know, four or five things actually, that were positive in my life. And, you know. You know, I had interactions with Nicole and Gina, you know, write that down in my diary. That was really good. Rather than focusing on that thing that happens a half hour on a Friday when it’s a bit negative and you get a bit of feedback or you look at something negative that sticks with you going through that evening into the weekend or whatever into the next day. So actually focusing on those, those good things and at the end of the week actually having a bit of a review of those things and just reinforcing those positive things that really helped. Obviously, the support of managers was really, really crucial as well. They were kind of right, okay, let’s take workload that spread it around the team. What do you need to do kind of thing? So actually just putting a hand up was really. Crucial that moment for me. Really.

Nicola [00:28:33] So you felt strongly supported by your workplace? They came in and they really gave you the time and space that you needed to feel well again after burnout.

Gareth [00:28:45] Yeah, I think there was that. I think actually one of the I think one of the aspects of I’m quite competitive a little bit. So one of the aspects of the whole thing that happened was my my boss was working long hours and I felt like kind of guilty that they were having to work long hours and I should be doing something and working alongside them. So that was kind of that thing that if, you know, we’re all high performers at this business, but actually they might prefer to work into the evening, whereas that’s not really my bag kind of thing. So actually understanding what they’re about. But I would say I was just getting up early, working through, working through to late because they were online and I had to make sure that we had got this stuff done, even though work is always going to be there every day. So, but they were great and supported me. I took a couple of days off. That’s what I needed. And then we also had a kind of a break to look forward to in New Zealand because we could holiday in New Zealand to move around because, you know, we didn’t have COVID. So that was glorious.

Nicola [00:29:42] We did go for a pretty long time without COVID. It was quite the heat. It was a that was a good time. I feel like we were all excited about that time. And then it just.

Gareth [00:29:52] Yeah, I think it was good because we compared and we were like, ha ha, we’re good and we’re living a normal life. And then.

Nicola [00:29:59] Next minute.

Gareth [00:29:59] That then, then it kind of switched and like we saw then Europe and America having a whale of a time. We’re like, we’re still not down by 2021. 20. Yeah, 2021.

Nicola [00:30:14] It was August, It was August 21. And then you guys also had. So in our different regions, Gina, we or Auckland was hit harder with COVID and we say hot. And now when there was only like 120 cases at a time, nothing, which is like that we hit the hardest. What they had two cases and we had like zero and they had two. So they shut us down by region and at a time, you know, they would go up to like a level four, which was total shutdown, and then we would be at a level three or a two, which means we could still move around. So Auckland was stuck like literally the whole like area was like shut. And then the rest of the country was like, well.

Gareth [00:30:54] It was.

Nicola [00:30:55] Horrible.

Gareth [00:30:55] That is out. Yeah, it was. So it was.

Nicola [00:30:57] Not it was really horrible. I think, you know, in hindsight I think some of those did go on a little longer than they should have because now that we’re in this kind of weird place where. No one gives a shits.

Gareth [00:31:10] And I got a bit of an insight because I went back to the like soon as the borders opened. I was like right to my wife because obviously we at that point we had a ten month old and my mate was getting married in the UK, so I was like, Right, we are going back to the UK, we’re going to spend a month. This is just before I moved to New Zealand and it was really surreal. Obviously going from New Zealand where we are still, we were at that point really paranoid, like wear a mask, you know, sanitize our hands every 10 seconds like that sort of thing, to then go into the UK where they did live with this for two years and I was just like, What are you doing wearing a mask? And then I remember the first that we got to the UK and we’re in a supermarket and I’m like, I’m not going to wear a mask in here. I’m not going to wear a mask. And just like because my wife was like, What are you doing? No, put the mask on. You could get COVID any point. And I was just like, No, we’re going to do it. And what? Right? And I was like, Oh, really?

GIna [00:32:00] Did you get COVID?

Gareth [00:32:02] No, I didn’t. In the UK, I actually got it when I was back here.

Nicola [00:32:05] So yeah, same. I also got it on back. We’d been overseas for a vacation to Raro and then got back and got slammed with COVID.

Gareth [00:32:17] Yeah. So.

GIna [00:32:17] So it was you think you picked it up on your trip overseas?

Nicola [00:32:20] No, it was I’m going to say it was probably the airport that we got it. It’s Thanks in New Zealand. Yeah.

Gareth [00:32:27] Sorry, but at least you got your holiday. That’s the main thing.

GIna [00:32:31] Like where I was like, eating this delicious chocolate ice cream. And I was like, Why doesn’t this taste very good? And it was like. And then I was like, Oh shit, because I can’t taste.

Nicola [00:32:43] Like, Yeah, you would have loved, you would have loved your onion, apple.

GIna [00:32:47] Would have loved it. That would have been the time to explore my onion apple fetish, which I don’t have. Okay, So honest about it.

Nicola [00:32:55] Like I couldn’t stop thinking about it.

Gareth [00:32:58] This, I was like this PTSD going on like here.

GIna [00:33:01] Yeah. This is a good tool for me. Nicola.

Gareth [00:33:03] You should do like chocolate apples, but then put one of them in like chocolate onion and then get people to like this. Look at the draw.

Nicola [00:33:11] They’re not fucked up shit. Is that.

Gareth [00:33:17] I feel.

GIna [00:33:17] Like. I mean, I like it because it’s kind of sinister. Yeah.

Gareth [00:33:20] So you don’t know which one is the apple, but you just. It’s the luck of the draw.

GIna [00:33:24] But, Nicola, thank you for giving me this thing to replay in my head when I’m really hungry and I can’t eat or I’ve eaten all my calories for the day.

Nicola [00:33:34] Thank you. Can we just pause here for a second and remind people that if this podcast is something you enjoy, we would love to hear from you.

GIna [00:33:42] You can find us on Instagram, LinkedIn and YouTube. Let’s break up toxic workplace stories.

Nicola [00:33:47] Sharing and subscribing really helps us feel validated situations.

GIna [00:33:53] Gareth, where you know, you you didn’t feel supported by management or your team. Like did you ever at any point in time in your career.

Gareth [00:34:03] That’s that’s a hard one to pluck out of the back of my brain, I guess. I guess sometimes, like my, my background is before health and safety. I used to work in kind of geotechnical environments and things like that. And, and I was always on site. So you’d always be out and about and amongst, you know, workers doing some drilling or excavators, kind of taking soil samples. So I have a real appreciation for those people who do that work. Do the hard mahi, as it say, in New Zealand, the hard work. Um, so that was always really difficult. So I was a real appreciation for those people especially and is Ireland right now, you know, in our ops space, which is kind of at the airport kind of doing such hard work. But back then when I was doing that kind of site base work, um, it was really difficult to get a manager to like when things were going wrong on site or you needed support. It was always very difficult because they couldn’t understand or comprehend around, you know, what was going on. And then when you kind of get back into the office, my, my English is it’s always weird being from England. You can’t expect some good English or good writing or good grammar. I’ve never really been I’ve always been a C grade student when it comes to English. And I get back into the office and they would say, Oh, you report right? It needs work, but never really.

Nicola [00:35:25] Give direction.

Gareth [00:35:26] Give direction or actually go or even go. You know what, actually maybe report right isn’t for you. Let’s get you some other work and actually put you into here because actually what you do on site, what you do here is really good. So it’s actually understanding about where your people strengths are. And it was only really when I came to New Zealand, I was actually given some good managers and some good people who kind of understood where my strengths lie, that actually then I was able to kind of growing confidence. I think I came to New Zealand not that confident, if you know what I mean, in the sense that I was doubting my abilities in what I can do. But actually when you then get put into. The right environment where you are supported and given the right opportunities rather than putting you into something that you’re going to fail. And then you’re like, Oh, well, I’ve just found that again, you know, I’m rubbish, I’m useless. And that negative self-talk which starts, um, which I at that moment in time when I was in the UK, I wasn’t given that. So, you know, you always think that you’re not doing a good job, if you know what I mean.

GIna [00:36:32] I absolutely know what you mean.

Gareth [00:36:33] So and I think somebody always said it. It’s like, you know, we always and this is the whole thing around health and safety and wellbeing to an extent. We always go to the blame the worker. And actually it’s not. It’s about the, you know, the environment that that person is. I always use the analogy of the the if you’re growing plants. Right. And the the plant doesn’t grow, you don’t go inside the plant, you actually go, Right. Well, let’s understand the water. Is it too hot outside? Is it the soil? Right. All these factors, are they good? Right. Because, you know, we should all be able to thrive at work. But, you know, we’re not all at the same ilk. If we try and get an elephant to climb a tree, it’s going to fail. But, you know, an elephant is good for one thing or another, but it’s not good for climbing trees. So actually, where are its strengths? What can we use it for so that it’s looking at people like that rather than just sort of going, Hey, you applied for this job, so you’re going to get put into that because actually that might not be working for that person. And also, as I say, the environment that is being built around the people, right? So, um, I’ve done a lot.

GIna [00:37:35] Of work that’s kind of a really nice analogy for a toxic workplace because it’s like, okay, we’re not actually looking at other factors. We’re just saying you suck at this part of your job or you suck at your job, but keep doing it well. Well.

Gareth [00:37:52] Yeah.

Nicola [00:37:52] I mean, sucking.

Gareth [00:37:53] Yeah.

GIna [00:37:54] And like, we’re okay with your level of suck, but we’re going to remind you that you still suck every so often. Yeah.

Gareth [00:38:02] I mean, it was. It was not like got to performance manager. It was just like you didn’t have a manager kind of put you into those right opportunities. So I didn’t think about I just don’t know whether they were the right manager. And I think a lot of the time in that kind of field, there’s a lot of technical expertise. So kind of what happens is people move through the ranks because they’re good at that technical aspects and you move up and open up and then actually used and get responsibilities for people. And actually they don’t understand the people as well as say, you know, the strengths with people and the strengths with technical. And what was happening is that we kind of ended up doing both, which actually should be separate and they should have people.

GIna [00:38:41] Because not everyone, technical manager But exactly a great report. Writer You know.

Gareth [00:38:48] Exactly. Yeah. It’s come out through Paul Ryan which you know, I’m not.

GIna [00:38:50] But you know what I think is really interesting is like it sounds to me like in New Zealand and possibly even in the UK, there is that the willingness to work with an employee to say like, you’re a good employee, but let’s figure out where you’re where, where you can shine your best. And in America, there it is very rare. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. It takes a very, very good, confident, smart person to manage and say like either, hey, let’s help you, like in your case with the report writing or Hey, you’re good and all this other stuff. Let’s give this to this expert report writer like, you know, because I feel like in America, we’re so capitalistic that it’s just like, okay, if you’re not benefiting the company to the to the way we want you to, we’ll find someone who can so fuck off kind of thing.

Gareth [00:39:50] Our contact sends us our contacts. And that’s that’s kind of a bit of my baby. It’s kind of in the sense that I came to New Zealand and heard and saw the stories in the news of our contacts and people because people were just ripping into them. But flights have been canceled. There’s all this covered, there’s bags being lost and that people they were just getting ripped into and they’ve had years of this sort of people just not treatment. And two things venting and you know and it doesn’t help that you’ve been online, you know, on hold for 2 to 3 hours. But it’s it’s okay. How can we when I came in, it’s like, okay, well, it’s not their fault if we’re getting people leaving. It’s actually we need to do better and protect them from all that stuff that’s coming through. And actually, can we help them to, you know, be able to deal with these conversations? Can we give them the right controls in the sense of this conversation, go south? Can we just say, you know, give them the power to be able to say, put the phone down, because a lot of people don’t. They just keep they take it and then go, right. Okay.

Nicola [00:40:53] Let me have.

Gareth [00:40:54] Broken let me help you now, which actually no, this shouldn’t be the thing.

Nicola [00:40:58] So you know what? I want to I’m going to give kudos, actually, to New Zealand, because I know there’s been a lot of stuff in the news around Greg. Showing up for his employees. Right. So the CEO will see a chief executive. He hops on the plane and he helps the air stewards hand out food and drinks because there’s not enough of them. Or he shows up at the chicken counters because there’s not enough people or he shows up at the call center because.

Gareth [00:41:29] They.

Nicola [00:41:30] Aren’t enough people.

Gareth [00:41:31] I was at Baca House and it just before Christmas where all the baggage was coming in, and that’s from baggage that was actually kind of lost by although I don’t want to back up because it’s kind of lost by the airlines and they know that people are coming to New Zealand. So then we have to kind of handle it and kind of distribute it. And we’re just, you know, ferrying away, trying to get bags out to people. And in Pops, Greg was like, how are you going to write? And I’m like, This is what it is. It’s like, just keep working kind of thing. So and then you see in the press, it’s like, Ah, Greg’s just doing this for a kind of a PR PR photoshoot and it’s not is. I was in training this morning, was for our people, for our ops center, have been trained by one of our health and safety vessels. And he was saying that, you know, Greg will come on a Saturday or Sunday, he will come round and he will, you know, he wants to hear the truth. He doesn’t want to hear from the all the people below him. He wants to hear what is happening right at the coalface and go. And that is how things have changed pretty quickly. Because once he knows that shit’s going wrong, it’s like, right.

Nicola [00:42:35] Let’s see. What’s really good about that is it really demonstrates, you know, strong leadership and that he’s not just there to manage a business, he’s there to understand and empathize and really deliver a solid message of solidarity of, you know, that kind of awareness of what is happening with stocks.

Gareth [00:42:59] The first group of people that I kind of went to when I got into this role last year, I went to try and understand their work and listen to their stories as just mind blowing some of the stuff that they have to deal with. And she’s just like, Well, you know what training we have? What this if you got what that if you got you know what? Why do you do this? And they’re like, Oh, cause that’s how we’ve always done it. That’s what we’ve been told. Okay, well, that’s not right. What systems do you have in place to talk about this? So it’s then understanding you go, Right, well, if we can put these these layers, these controls in place to stop people getting to that point where they are raging and calling them everything under the sun, that’s kind of the goal, really. And even just, I think a lot of things around Contact Center as well and call centers is very much there’s a lot of attrition. They go through a lot of people because obviously they’re having to deal with a lot of crap and actually going, Hey, can we actually make this a career? And one of the things we’re doing at the moment is actually providing some like level training and courses that they can go on to, the routes that they can take through that. So actually see a career path into this. Actually, this is something for the long term rather than just necessarily going through like, you know, Gina, you said in America, they kind of just churn through and go up next person. Next person. I see so much money is wasted doing that. It’s such a waste of money. It’s not sustainable. You know, we talk with these companies, talk about sustainability, but you always your mind goes to I a need to be greener and you know, not just plastic waste, but actually it’s about people, man.

GIna [00:44:28] It is about people and it’s about how companies are run, not just from an environmental standpoint. I remember where Nicole and I met. I came into this like basically Nicola calls it a dumpster fire, which it absolutely was. And I was just like, how is this company even running, even getting inventory the way that they are? It’s not sustainable. And when I said that, I was like, oh, like now I get why companies talk about sustainability on more than like it’s not just the environmental sustainability, which of course a lot of companies are trying to make, you know, inroads there. But it’s like the sustainability of a business. Will it last for more for another two years? And on how to how do we sustain our our good employee is of course you know of course I’m sure some of the call center employees we’re just not good but yeah it happens, you know in every industry. So I mean now it makes me feel bad for any call center person I ever gave a.

Nicola [00:45:34] Little added, you know, what’s it like?

GIna [00:45:37] So what are some of the things that you’re trying to change? Like, can you give us an example of something you’re either implementing or have implemented that you’re hoping to make the call center employees feel better?

Gareth [00:45:51] One thing I want to change, which is not going to change overnight, is Colson. The people, they are monitored all day, every day while they’re online. So if you just got a call and somebody said call you everything under the sun or like during COVID, somebody was like, I’m going to kill myself, basically. To New Zealand. You needed like a voucher from to get into an IKEA, which was like a quarantine, and you didn’t stay there for two two weeks and people would that desperate. They’re just calling up and saying, give me flights. And obviously the first thing that they would ask is go, I need your voucher from my queue. And people don’t have it, you know, a partner or a family and it’s got.

Nicola [00:46:29] A hot mess and.

Gareth [00:46:30] It was horrible. There’s only certain numbers of people. And as a people, I’m going to kill myself right now and you know, that sort of thing. And fund goes down and then all the people are. So this is very similar for a lot of contacts and is they get a five minute micro break, you get 5 minutes to process that, and then you have to go on to the next call who you don’t know you’re going to get. You don’t know how angry they’ll be. What’s going to happen? No, nobody that I know of at New Zealand or in place, stopwatch has been scrutinized in terms of, you know, down to the minutes of what you’re doing in terms of productivity and everything else. I don’t know if you’ve worked in places like that, but that’s tough. That’s really tough to be controlled and monitored all the time.

GIna [00:47:14] So what brother is watching you? And and I mean, one.

Gareth [00:47:17] Of the things I want to try and do is go can we start to take off some of these layers of monitoring and just try out? Because the whole thing is the trust piece. You know, when we first had to move work from home in COVID, the workplace had to trust people and go, You’re going to get the work done. And they did. But it’s the same thing here is to kind of go, let’s build that trust, to maybe try.

Nicola [00:47:40] Work is done versus work as imagined, right? We’re imagining that they’re doing this certain thing, but it’s really just damaging their capacity for independence.

GIna [00:47:50] Well, it reminds me of the episode of The Office where Michael is in around for like a couple of days. And just his commentary is like, it’s crazy that actually adults come in and do their work and leave on time every day without Michael being around. Yeah. So it’s like, yes.

Gareth [00:48:08] Exactly.

GIna [00:48:10] We can do that.

Gareth [00:48:11] Making sure it is a process. So when people do start kicking off, what’s your process? Oh, well, I kind of made this up and learned through my interactions that I had to do this. Okay, well actually what is best practice? So then using, you know, some process and tools to go, these are the three steps you need to take if things start kicking off. So then actually giving them the, you know, some of the so actually giving them some tools to put in place.

GIna [00:48:34] But I can’t imagine like how how I would feel if someone was like screaming at me and then saying I’m going to like saying I’m going to kill myself. And then hanging up the psychological damage.

Gareth [00:48:46] Exactly. So I think that this person is well, you know, that’s the whole thing, because you think that person is there for you. But they’ve dealt with, you know, five or six people before. So I like you. It’s hard when you’re trying to get things solved and you’re like, God, I want to be put on hold again or I don’t want to be put through to a manager. I just want you to solve this. But yeah, it’s it’s having an understanding and appreciation for, you know, what they’re going through and what they have been through. And like you say, they get 5 minutes maximum to go between calls today, but that’s just normal. So I’m tell you that I’m trying to change that that whole system and even have it where I don’t know if you’ve got at the moment this one catch tomorrow is where I know they do a spark which is like a telecom provider and it is.

Nicola [00:49:33] Essentially like 880.

Gareth [00:49:36] Yeah, Thank you. I just I was trying to think of a US based company and they, they have.

Nicola [00:49:40] Like, I’m here for the translating.

Gareth [00:49:42] Thank you, Nicola. So yeah, what you can do is you can like book a timeslot to call somebody because actually what’s happening at the moment is people, especially during floods, cyclones and COVID and everything else, it’s taken two plus hours to get through and people don’t have two, 3 hours. So actually booking a time and then you can put a little description in and get them to call you back. And actually we do have a callback service, but actually so, you know, an hour of of a time where you can get a callback and you’ve got to be a bit calmer and you’re going to be a little bit more responsive because actually, I know in between the hours of 10 a.m. and 11 a.m., I’m going to get a call and then answer that call, hopefully get myself, you know, dealt with.

Nicola [00:50:21] I would love that for the current place, but I keep calling every 20 minutes and then I’m on hold for 4 hours. I actually have to book out part of my day to be on hold because I can’t take meetings on hold for 4 hours.

Gareth [00:50:33] And then you get to the point where you get to the end of that 4 hours and you think, well, yes, because I’ve got two kids up, I got to go and do this.

Nicola [00:50:39] Exactly. And please stop stress.

Gareth [00:50:41] Levels going up. Yeah.

Nicola [00:50:42] Yeah. And then sometimes the phone will cut out because the the influx of calls are just too many. So they shut down their cooling system.

GIna [00:50:51] Recently, after I got fired from after I resigned, I got fired from where Nicole and I met. I was on unemployment and I had to call to talk to a representative about something. And literally it was like, we’re really. The recording was basically, we’re super busy. Try again some other time. Dial tone. And I was like, Oh, okay.

Gareth [00:51:19] These are honest.

Nicola [00:51:21] Yeah.

GIna [00:51:21] It was like New York State, though. So I was like, All right, New York State, I feel you like, okay.

Nicola [00:51:26] So I think as we kind of wrap up, is there anything that you would like to share as some really proactive approaches to dealing with burnout or ways that we could potentially allow leaders to be more aware and supportive of how to kind of navigate through that process?

Gareth [00:51:49] I think it’s just understanding the individual’s role in the sense, you know, I say you got to understand everybody’s different. Everybody’s got their own strengths and weaknesses and understanding those and, you know, having those regular communications with the people, with your people to understand that, whether that’s through as a health and safety practitioner, whether that’s for a manager, whether it’s their even just work as a worker, actually understanding people, understanding that context is so important. Like with what we talked about, our CEO Greg is just getting out and understanding and that’s the only way you can really do it. You can’t do it from sitting in an office. And I’ve attended many health and safety conferences in New Zealand where you got to go and talk to the workers and workers. Imagine work is done and like, Yeah, okay, get out. Actually, yeah, just go in and being in their shoes for a day. One of the other things I did before Christmas, I did some volunteering at the airport, pushing around people in wheelchairs. Um, because there’s a lot of people who need to, you know, get sort of special assistance to get from the aircraft to the the terminal and all that sort of stuff. Again, a really great experience to go, Why are you doing this? Why are you doing that? And looking at it from those those psychosocial risk factors? And why are you working 12 hours a day for our short staffed? Okay, well, let’s look at other elements. You know, what’s your workload and what pace is it? Can we can we look at changing that? Can we sort of roster one to make sure there’s a good breaks between those so sort of things are just invaluable if you if you’re allowed you don’t want to sort of go in and start making things up but you want to sort of go in there and get appreciation of the work and actually how hard or how easy or challenging it is for for those people. So that that for me is is where you can really the robot can kind of hit the road when it comes to help him with was, you know, burnout or stress or or impacts to mental health in the workplace really, you know, take time to think I’d say these things just go and hitting at your fast this well are this huge like when you’re stressed and overloaded like you don’t take the time to go okay where’s where how does this fit into the strategy? How does this sort of go into play? You know, you’re not thinking like you’re just thinking, get me to the next thing. Get me to the next thing, Get me put.

GIna [00:53:59] Out the fire. But, um, yeah, Yeah. I think one of the things that has become what we’re hearing in speaking to so many different people from so many different places in various industries is the power of pausing. That’s that’s something that I think if you can master that or just strengthen that muscle, it will be very beneficial for you and your career.

Gareth [00:54:29] Physical well-being sense. You know, you can’t just keep running marathons. You’re going to need that break. And it’s the same thing with them to an extent. Without mental health, you need those those times of rest breaks for your brain to go to literally steam and then you can go again. But I think, you know, it’s like burnout. You just going and going and going and going and going and then you hit a wall. So like you say, whether it’s pauses or breaks and having those tools, that’s vital for this. You need those tools and those resources in your back pocket to be able to pull out to manage those when times are tough and challenges. And when you needed to work 12 hours a day for five days, seven plus. Right. So that’s when you need those tools and to know that you’re okay for the short amount of time I’m going to I don’t know what bloody hard but actually at the end of that and then going to take, you know, a day, I’m going to do things for me and focus on me and my family and that sort of thing. So.

GIna [00:55:23] All right. Well, I have really enjoyed getting to know you.

Gareth [00:55:26] It’s been an absolute pleasure. I’ve looked.

GIna [00:55:28] At and I love our chocolate covered onion idea of.

Gareth [00:55:32] Phil as the title of the podcast.

GIna [00:55:34] I feel I feel like that was that’s the biggest takeaway from this. No, I’m kidding. But no, it was just really interesting to get to know, you know, what you do. We don’t, to my knowledge, we don’t have that level of support here in America. I’m sure in some companies they do, but I know where I’ve been. So it’s very progressive and I’m learning so much. I was just telling Nicola before. I was like, I’ve learned so much how like so many cool things about different areas, different industries, and taking those suggestions and trying to be a better manager myself. So thank you for adding to that. Nicola Do you have anything else to say?

Nicola [00:56:24] No, I think you pretty much summed it up really nicely and you know, I appreciate Gareth, I appreciate you taking your time because I know we’re in, you know, health and safety space people. We’re in a busy time at the moment. We’ve got a lot of fires to put out at the moment, a lot of cyclone issues to deal with. So I really appreciate you taking the time out to chat with us. It’s you know, I know time is valuable, so I really appreciate it.

Gareth [00:56:51] I know. I love that. I think it’s been a right who. And just to use that sort of chocolate apple onion thing, you know, you don’t know what you don’t know what’s underneath, you know, So it’s, you know, standing, understanding the context, maybe digging a little bit to find out what is going on, whether it’s you people or whether it’s your system.

Nicola [00:57:07] So I just I just want to point out, I hate both of you now. And I swear to God, if an onion and chocolate coated onion shows, I do just lie.

GIna [00:57:17] Honestly, I’m too lazy to figure out how to coat an onion with chocolate so it won’t be me.

Gareth [00:57:24] Yeah.

Nicola [00:57:25] Yeah, we’ll come for you.

GIna [00:57:26] I don’t have enough time and I’m too lazy. And the idea of even trying to ship that to New Zealand is not worth my.

Gareth [00:57:33] I think I’ve just rather just put it all to be honest. And yeah.

GIna [00:57:39] I like, I don’t know if you guys have like Ubereats or Instacart. I like Instacart.

Gareth [00:57:44] Which Uber eats, but yeah.

GIna [00:57:46] Okay. So I’ll Uber eats you like, like a bunch of like a spatula onions.

Nicola [00:57:51] I’m going to come over there and punch you in the side of the boob. This is a great chat, but thank you. Thank you, Gareth. We really appreciate it.

GIna [00:57:59] It’s been fun.

Gareth [00:58:00] Yeah, I really. I just. I know what to expect with this, so it’s. Yeah, really, really fun and really good to meet you and chat with you and just chew the fat on these sort of topics.

GIna [00:58:13] Yeah. Yeah, that’s what we’re here for. I think we should absolutely keep the chocolate covered onion thread.

Gareth [00:58:19] It would just be weird if it just appeared at the end randomly.

GIna [00:58:22] You know, we have to keep the whole thread all the way through because we are talking about tantrums, so it makes sense. Like burnout. Having a tantrum would totally make sense.

Nicola [00:58:31] Don’t give me that’s I hate you both.

GIna [00:58:34] But then you can use your creative magic and be like.

Nicola [00:58:37] I’m going to ask AI to design you a chocolate onion.

GIna [00:58:43] Oh, thank you.

Gareth [00:58:44] So I’m going to go to see what that are.

Nicola [00:58:47] Yeah. All right. But catch you guys later. And thanks again.

Gareth [00:58:51] Thank you.

GIna [00:58:51] Bye bye.

Nicola [00:58:54] Thank you for joining us today. If you would like to share your story, we would love to hear from you.

GIna [00:58:59] Also, leaving a review helps us create more content because it shows us there is an interest in this topic.

Nicola [00:59:05] For those of our listeners who do better with reading, we have closed captioning available on YouTube.

GIna [00:59:09] Dayana Next week, same time, same place.

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